|
PureBytes Links
Trading Reference Links
|
Gram -
IB is introducing broker. BD is broker dealer. With holding is 20% of all
funds received. If your broker is in sark, then they may be playing games
and have no tax treaty with the US, but then somebody should be getting hit
with the bill. Sounds as if something is falling through the cracks.
Steve Poser
---
Steven W. Poser, President
Poser Global Market Strategies Inc.
http://www.poserglobal.com
swp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Tel: 201-995-0845
Fax: 201-995-0846
-----Original Message-----
From: listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Gram
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 3:25 PM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [RT] R: Re: R: R: R: R: Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
I am still waiting for you (or someone on the list) to tell me just how much
this withholding tax is? Is it more or less than Income taxes in the US?
Many thanks,
Gram.
>Bullshit !
>
>Gram wrote:
>
>> Suspect what you like. However, I trade regularly through European
brokers
>> on US and European markets, and I check slippage against my CQG data. Any
>> profits I make are always deposited into my account, minus such slippage
>> and, of course, commissions. Nothing else has ever been withheld.
>> What is withheld, if anything (because you don't seem to want to say how
>> much should be held), seems then to be held from the broker, certainly
not
>> from me!!!
>> He must be a very generous broker not to charge me, what do you think?
>>
>> Gram.
>> p.s. your last sentence is terribly cynical - perhaps you secretly like
your
>> fellow-traders being taxed heavily; perhaps it is your sense of justice?
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> >Any account which is opened to trade on US exchanges is required to
provide
>> a US
>> >tax ID # or the dealer(the brokerage house)has to pledge it's tax id #.
>> >Accounts without a US tax id # are subject to a non resident withholding
on
>> ALL
>> >proceeds and dividends. If the dealer doesn't get the information it is
>> >required to withhold... if it doesn't withhold against the customer the
>> >withholding occurs against the dealer account.
>> >
>> >I would assume you would have know these details. I really wouldn't
take
>> the
>> >time to address these issues. Not being familiar with them seems to
>> confirm
>> >what one might suspect.
>> >
>> >Gram wrote:
>> >
>> >> Before I tackle your points, would you please explain this better,
>> perhaps
>> >> with an example:
>> >> "You IB or BD is required to conform to non resident withholding or be
>> >> withheld themselves"
>> >> Many thanks,
>> >> Gram.
>> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> >> Da: The Doctor <droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> A: gramario@xxxxxx <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> Cc: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Data: 25/06/2000 20:36
>> >> Oggetto: Re: [RT] R: R: Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >>
>> >> >You can't have a securities account or futures account using US
products
>> >> without
>> >> >either a social security number or be subject to non resident
>> withholding.
>> >> If
>> >> >you open an account at Schwab, Refco or UBS to trade in the US you
have
>> to
>> >> >supply a US SS # or be subject to non resident withholding on
dividends
>> and
>> >> >proceeds.
>> >> >
>> >> >Now I assume you are going to claim you use a non US broker. To
clear a
>> US
>> >> >product they need to have a US sub which conforms.
>> >> >
>> >> >For example ... in securities and futures there are size position
>> reports
>> >> which
>> >> >your broker has to submit. They either have to have a SS# or the
>> brokers
>> >> >SS#.... with an SS# the broker is subject to non resident
withholding.
>> >> There
>> >> >are no exceptions.
>> >> >
>> >> >You can live on MARS it wouldn't make a difference. There are
asset
>> >> havens
>> >> >once you have the funds ..... no income havens using securities or
>> futures.
>> >> >Even if your broker has an offshore sub or you trade through the
London
>> >> office
>> >> >of a US member.
>> >> >
>> >> >Gram wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> First, I don't even understand what an IB or BD is?
>> >> >> Second, I have no interest in US tax laws as they do not concern
me.
>> >> >> Third, the IRS is only one tax authority in the world. I feel
obliged
>> to
>> >> >> remind you that the US in only one state in the world, not the
whole
>> >> world!
>> >> >> If UK authorities do not/or cannot poke their noses into Sark
affairs,
>> I
>> >> see
>> >> >> no reason why US authorities should either. Further, surely any
>> serious
>> >> tax
>> >> >> planning should also take into account other tax authorities also.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >> Gram.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I have a question? US tax laws require require non-resident with
>> >> holding.
>> >> >> How
>> >> >> >do you avoid that. You IB or BD is required to conform to non
>> resident
>> >> >> >withholding or be withheld themselves. So assuming the story is
>> correct
>> >> >> how do
>> >> >> >you avoid the w/h issue.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Gram wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Here: http://www.sark.net/~xott/sarkinfo.html
>> >> >> >> But where you live is only one part of it, you must also
organize
>> your
>> >> >> >> affairs properly.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> >> >> >> Da: Eliot Kaplan <eliot@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> A: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders
>> >> <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> Data: 25/06/2000 19:31
>> >> >> >> Oggetto: [RT] Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Gram,
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Thanks for your response!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I guess the next logical question is: Where (what country &
>> >> >> state/province)
>> >> >> >> >have you found that is so resident/income friendly that no
taxes
>> are
>> >> >> >> >required?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >My wife is Canadian, so I often ponder whether I could trade
from
>> >> there
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> >significantly less taxes.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I could get residency through her, and have often considered
>> >> Vancouver
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >its environs a healthier alternative to Southern CA, which is
>> where I
>> >> am
>> >> >> >> >now.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >The US with its ever increasing legal controls, taxes,
pollution
>> and
>> >> >> >> >overpopulation have certainly got me looking at a potentially
>> >> quieter,
>> >> >> more
>> >> >> >> >hassle free existence across the border.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >If only winter weren't so extreme!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Perhaps there are no "perfect" places?!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >So, where are you pray tell?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Eliot
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:43:06 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> Subject: [RT] R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Hi Eliot,
>> >> >> >> >> I apologise for the fact that some people perhaps do not
realise
>> >> that
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> >> neither live nor operate from or within the US.
>> >> >> >> >> I long ago decided that these costs had to be dealt with in
>> order
>> >> to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> free
>> >> >> >> >> from some encumberances. I made my plan (much as most of us
do
>> when
>> >> >> >> >> trading), and then took steps to nurse and guide it to
fruition.
>> >> >> >> >> I have no interest in the IRS or any other institution and
there
>> is
>> >> no
>> >> >> >> >> reason why they should an interest in me..
>> >> >> >> >> I am not a "declared tax free" as you put it; my position is
>> >> perfectly
>> >> >> >> >> legal.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> As to your question:
>> >> >> >> >> "Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might
be
>> a
>> >> few
>> >> >> >> >> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?"
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The answer is, "No, I do not get audited nor harassed by
anyone.
>> >> >> Hence,
>> >> >> >> >> there are no significant costs (whether they be of a time,
>> energy,
>> >> or
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> dollar nature)."
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Gram,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> Are you just not paying taxes?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I presume this means you are among the folks who believe you
do
>> >> not
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >>> pay, that the Constitution or whatever "asks" for
contributions
>> >> but
>> >> >> does
>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >>> and doesn't have the right to "demand" them. Is this so?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I've heard of the "declared tax free', but, like many, I'm
>> sure,
>> >> have
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> hard
>> >> >> >> >>> time believing that just not paying would work, and not
cause
>> >> >> >> significant
>> >> >> >> >>> problems.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Want to enlighten us on what you mean? And how long you've
done
>> it
>> >> >> >> >>> successfully.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Your point about other trading costs being insignificant in
>> >> relation
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >>> taxes is clearly so, but I'm sure many of us have a hard
time
>> with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> idea
>> >> >> >> >>> we can just walk away from taxes with no governmental
recourse.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might
be
>> a
>> >> few
>> >> >> >> >>> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Just an interested citizen, and I apologize to the list that
>> this
>> >> >> >> inquiry
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >>> perhaps off topic.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Eliot
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:39:18 +0200
>> >> >> >> >>>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Subject: [RT] R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> So many people spend time comparing brokers commissions,
data
>> >> feeds,
>> >> >> >> etc.
>> >> >> >> >>>> which do indeed eat into their trading profits. But instead
of
>> >> >> >> >> concentrating
>> >> >> >> >>>> solely on trading costs, look at it the other way for a
>> moment:
>> >> >> >> eliminate
>> >> >> >> >>>> all tax, all accountants, all paperwork, inheritance taxes,
>> >> Capital
>> >> >> >> Gains
>> >> >> >> >>>> and all corporate taxes and see what this does to your
trading
>> >> P&L.
>> >> >> >> >>>> Try thinking of it as $1 earned = $1 kept. It is much
easier
>> to
>> >> >> become
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >>>> millionaire this way.
>> >> >> >> >>>> If you save 30+% a year on such costs, the choice between
CQG
>> or
>> >> >> >> >> Quote.com
>> >> >> >> >>>> becomes easier. You choose the best there is for your
needs!
>> >> >> >> >>>> Just an idea.
>> >> >> >> >>>> Gram.
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
>
|