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You can't have a securities account or futures account using US products without
either a social security number or be subject to non resident withholding. If
you open an account at Schwab, Refco or UBS to trade in the US you have to
supply a US SS # or be subject to non resident withholding on dividends and
proceeds.
Now I assume you are going to claim you use a non US broker. To clear a US
product they need to have a US sub which conforms.
For example ... in securities and futures there are size position reports which
your broker has to submit. They either have to have a SS# or the brokers
SS#.... with an SS# the broker is subject to non resident withholding. There
are no exceptions.
You can live on MARS it wouldn't make a difference. There are asset havens
once you have the funds ..... no income havens using securities or futures.
Even if your broker has an offshore sub or you trade through the London office
of a US member.
Gram wrote:
> First, I don't even understand what an IB or BD is?
> Second, I have no interest in US tax laws as they do not concern me.
> Third, the IRS is only one tax authority in the world. I feel obliged to
> remind you that the US in only one state in the world, not the whole world!
> If UK authorities do not/or cannot poke their noses into Sark affairs, I see
> no reason why US authorities should either. Further, surely any serious tax
> planning should also take into account other tax authorities also.
>
> Best,
> Gram.
>
> >I have a question? US tax laws require require non-resident with holding.
> How
> >do you avoid that. You IB or BD is required to conform to non resident
> >withholding or be withheld themselves. So assuming the story is correct
> how do
> >you avoid the w/h issue.
> >
> >Gram wrote:
> >
> >> Here: http://www.sark.net/~xott/sarkinfo.html
> >> But where you live is only one part of it, you must also organize your
> >> affairs properly.
> >>
> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
> >> Da: Eliot Kaplan <eliot@xxxxxxx>
> >> A: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Data: 25/06/2000 19:31
> >> Oggetto: [RT] Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
> >>
> >> >Gram,
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for your response!
> >> >
> >> >I guess the next logical question is: Where (what country &
> state/province)
> >> >have you found that is so resident/income friendly that no taxes are
> >> >required?
> >> >
> >> >My wife is Canadian, so I often ponder whether I could trade from there
> >> with
> >> >significantly less taxes.
> >> >
> >> >I could get residency through her, and have often considered Vancouver
> and
> >> >its environs a healthier alternative to Southern CA, which is where I am
> >> >now.
> >> >
> >> >The US with its ever increasing legal controls, taxes, pollution and
> >> >overpopulation have certainly got me looking at a potentially quieter,
> more
> >> >hassle free existence across the border.
> >> >
> >> >If only winter weren't so extreme!
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps there are no "perfect" places?!
> >> >
> >> >So, where are you pray tell?
> >> >
> >> >Eliot
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Eliot Kaplan
> >> >
> >> >email: eliot@xxxxxxx
> >> >web: www.isu.com
> >> >
> >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
> >> >> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
> >> >> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:43:06 +0200
> >> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Subject: [RT] R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Eliot,
> >> >> I apologise for the fact that some people perhaps do not realise that
> I
> >> >> neither live nor operate from or within the US.
> >> >> I long ago decided that these costs had to be dealt with in order to
> be
> >> free
> >> >> from some encumberances. I made my plan (much as most of us do when
> >> >> trading), and then took steps to nurse and guide it to fruition.
> >> >> I have no interest in the IRS or any other institution and there is no
> >> >> reason why they should an interest in me..
> >> >> I am not a "declared tax free" as you put it; my position is perfectly
> >> >> legal.
> >> >>
> >> >> As to your question:
> >> >> "Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might be a few
> >> >> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?"
> >> >>
> >> >> The answer is, "No, I do not get audited nor harassed by anyone.
> Hence,
> >> >> there are no significant costs (whether they be of a time, energy, or
> a
> >> >> dollar nature)."
> >> >>
> >> >> Gram,
> >> >>
> >> >>> Are you just not paying taxes?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I presume this means you are among the folks who believe you do not
> need
> >> to
> >> >>> pay, that the Constitution or whatever "asks" for contributions but
> does
> >> >> not
> >> >>> and doesn't have the right to "demand" them. Is this so?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I've heard of the "declared tax free', but, like many, I'm sure, have
> a
> >> >> hard
> >> >>> time believing that just not paying would work, and not cause
> >> significant
> >> >>> problems.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Want to enlighten us on what you mean? And how long you've done it
> >> >>> successfully.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Your point about other trading costs being insignificant in relation
> to
> >> >>> taxes is clearly so, but I'm sure many of us have a hard time with
> the
> >> idea
> >> >>> we can just walk away from taxes with no governmental recourse.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might be a few
> >> >>> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Just an interested citizen, and I apologize to the list that this
> >> inquiry
> >> >> is
> >> >>> perhaps off topic.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Eliot
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Eliot Kaplan
> >> >>>
> >> >>> email: eliot@xxxxxxx
> >> >>> web: www.isu.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
> >> >>>> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:39:18 +0200
> >> >>>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> Subject: [RT] R: Re: Stocks and futures
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So many people spend time comparing brokers commissions, data feeds,
> >> etc.
> >> >>>> which do indeed eat into their trading profits. But instead of
> >> >> concentrating
> >> >>>> solely on trading costs, look at it the other way for a moment:
> >> eliminate
> >> >>>> all tax, all accountants, all paperwork, inheritance taxes, Capital
> >> Gains
> >> >>>> and all corporate taxes and see what this does to your trading P&L.
> >> >>>> Try thinking of it as $1 earned = $1 kept. It is much easier to
> become
> >> a
> >> >>>> millionaire this way.
> >> >>>> If you save 30+% a year on such costs, the choice between CQG or
> >> >> Quote.com
> >> >>>> becomes easier. You choose the best there is for your needs!
> >> >>>> Just an idea.
> >> >>>> Gram.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >
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