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Bob,
<p>I think you are missing the point of the original question. Who
generates volume? The floors don't trade simply to trade. The
floors don't trade with one another for laughs either. I'm don't
denying that volume ebbs at certain times. IT DOES NOT OCCUR because
the pros are gone. It occurs because the pros trade the paper.
At the CBOE where I work almost 70% of the volume is dealer to dealer to
hedge the customer paper. The same relationship exists at NYSE, CME
and CBOT. If 4% of customers go away ... trading volume drops 12%.
Go back to the original question.
<p>On the NYSE there is an expression that the "nose pickers " trade at
the opening and the "stock pickers" trade at the close. Interestingly
enough in the last few years the public is in the market at the close to
a much higher percentage than in the past.
<p>None the less you have to keep in mind that the floors don't trade simply
to trade. If the paper dries up .. which it does
when the public goes away ... when europe closes - which is around mid
day as well.
<p>BobR wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <font size=-1>If there were any constant in
the markets its the daily volume patterns. There has never been a
day where the volume per minute has been a flat line from open to close,
except when the exchange is closed. It always dips into mid day,
always. Overnight orders and EOD decisions affect the AM volume.
PM is for profit taking and tape painting, especially the last hour cleanup
activity by the pros.</font> <font size=-1>BR</font> -----
Original Message -----
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
The DOCTOR</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> BobR</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2000 9:27 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RT] Re: [Fwd: GEN: Floor
Trading Activity]</div>
Did you ever think it is a self fulfilling prophecy? It can
also occur at other times during the day. What most likely happens
is that some investors go to lunch. The floors and pros don't.
<p>BobR wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE"><style></style>
Maybe virtually no one leaves the
floor, but the trading rate in terms of millions of shares per minute definitely
dips to about 1.5 million shares per minute over the mid day after starting
the day around 4 million and ending between 3.5 and 4 million. They
may not leave the floor, but someone's trading is concentrated in the early
AM and late PM. Some trading decisions are being made in those early
and late hours that affect volume. BobR
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b><a href="mailto:droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx"; title="droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx">The
DOCTOR</a></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2000 8:58 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [RT] [Fwd: GEN: Floor Trading
Activity]</div>
The DOCTOR wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">None of this is true. Virtually no one leaves
the floor for lunch ... and those
<br>that do are not the senior traders. Upstairs trading desks and
hedge funds
<br>either get lunch at their desks. Many of the best trading firms have
kitchens in
<br>house just to assure no one leaves. If you stood in front of
the CBOE, NYSE or
<br>CME at lunchtime you would see more people on the street than at other
times,
<br>but they are no decision makers.
<p>Ross Kovacs wrote:
<p>> This comment/question was triggered by the previous "Market Outlook"
thread
<br>> shown below:
<br>>
<br>> I had always attributed market movements around 11:30 am EST time
to floor
<br>> traders trying to put some balance in their positions before they
take a
<br>> lunch break. I've never worked on the floor of an exchange,
so I would
<br>> appreciate seeing any comments from RTs that have worked on exchanges.
<br>> Assuming floor traders must obey natural human needs (eat sometime
during
<br>> the day, go to the restroom, etc.), what impact do these activities
have on
<br>> market movements? I can obviously see volume thinning during
mid-day, and
<br>> have usually discounted price moves that occur during lunch periods.
Are
<br>> their other things that an off-floor trader should be aware during
lunch
<br>> periods? The "11:30 am EST time when most European markets
close and their
<br>> participation in our day session is ended" effect is a separate event
I was
<br>> not aware of. Any other "off-floor" events at this time that
can affect
<br>> market movements?
<br>>
<br>> If you are a trader in an open outcry market, how do you reestablish
your
<br>> physical position in a trading pit or at a trading post when you've
had to
<br>> give in to the demands your body makes during the day?
<br>>
<br>> Ross Kovacs
<br>>
<br>> rossrk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<br>>
<br>> In a message dated 6/17/00 9:00:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<br>> wl7bdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<br>>
<br>> << There is a six to eight dollar move around that time almost
exactly EVERY
<br>> DAY. In fact a 6 pt move is one of the highest probability
and most common
<br>> moves in the contract. Irrespective of the tide tables.
<br>> >>
<br>>
<br>> Michael,...Thanks for stating the obvious regarding Norman's "Market
<br>> Outlook". Also intraday pivot often occurs around
the 11:30 am EST time
<br>> when most European markets close and their participation in our day
session
<br>> is ended. Not a big deal. There is much that could be discussed
here about
<br>> intraday turning points,..etc., but I think Earl was
looking for the
<br>> Market
<br>> Outlook of others,...meaning what to expect over the next days and
<br>> weeks..etc. Thanks again. Regards, JIM P.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Mon Jun 19 12:30:04 2000
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From: "Earl Adamy" <eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <200006191631.MAA15437@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RT] Re: GOOD CALL NORMAN (NOT!)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:55:35 -0600
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Status:
Just for the record, referencing SP 1 minute charts, opened 1046 at
1490.70 (see blue horizontal line) reached a high of 1494.50 at 1048 and
reached a low of 1486.50 at 1135. The maximum range up from 1046 was
3.80 up and maximum range down from 1046 was 4.20. An 8 point move was
specified which would have left one hung long with an 8 point loss or
hung short with (currently) a 7 point loss. No doubt if one hangs in
long enough the 9 points will be achieved in one direction or the other.
This is the danger of specific trading predictions which are not
accompanied by an entry and exit strategy - the author appears to be a
genius without ever being specific enough to lose his/her halo.
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "SCOTT WINSKI, APS FINANCIAL CORPOR" <WINSKI@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: [RT] GOOD CALL NORMAN
> Norman....that was a great call...so much for those that certain
people should
> never burn their fingers to snuff out another's candle....
>
>
>
>
>
>
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