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Warren:
Ehhh...I can speak for Earl's knowlege of the markets. He knows what he is
talking about.
There are very real problems with the New York markets. If you've ever spent
any time at all on the New York exchange floors [compared to the CME or the
CBOT], you'd know that their systems for trade processing, for example, are
several decades behind most other exchanges. They also routinely treat
customer orders very differently than the CME or CBOT allow. If you have never
had a problem with timely fills, quality fills or execution of orders, you
haven't traded these markets much.
How much does the quality of your broker matter? Quite a bit. Probably more in
New York than at the CME or CBOT--because if CME or CBOT brokers treated
orders the way the NY floor brokers treat orders, they'd be up for exchange
violations.
I trade a large amount of New York markets--for my own capital and for the
accounts I manage. I do get much better fills than most individuals trading
their own accounts--because my brokers do have size to use to their advantage.
But I do at times trade small lots and the service is always a struggle. Any
time I trade NY markets, I know I am going to be open to dealing with triple
the frustration...
Best,
Tim Morge [Yes, I am a registered CTA and my registration is not pending...]
Warren Goldstein wrote:
> Earl and others,
>
> I guess then, that my experience has been atypical.
> I've never had a problem in the New York markets, which I have traded for
> the last 11 years.
> In fact, I can point to many cases of positive slippage on stops and limit
> orders.
>
> Wouldn't you think it's more likely that your brokers haven't been up to
> par?
>
> Warren Goldstein
> Informational Commodity Trading Advisor
> Email: wsg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website: www.wsginvestments.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf Of Earl Adamy
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:30 AM
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [RT] Re: FUT: time & sales needed
>
> Not funny when this stuff happens, and it seems to happen frequently in
> NY. In 3 years of running orders through the Chicago markets, I've had
> such a thing happen only a couple of times and I've generally found that
> a bad fill in Chicago (a fill a few ticks worse than it "should" have
> been filled) is eventually offset by a good fill (a fill a few ticks
> better than where it "should" have been filled). My most recent really
> bad experience in NY markets was in the gold pit where it traded "big"
> through my OB sell order and my broker could get me absolutely no
> feedback of any kind from the pit regarding high price, canceled trades,
> etc.. Not knowing if my OB order was filled, I was afraid to keep
> running the stop up under the price as I did not want to be short. As it
> turned out, all trades above my OB were cancelled, my order was not
> executed, and price pulled back costing me thousands in lost profits ...
> and the broker an account. More recently, I've been jerked around
> several times in the sugar pit due to what looks like a major stop
> running. Current policy is to avoid the NY markets and trade a bit
> bigger in Chicago
>
> Earl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis L. Conn" <dennisconn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:22 PM
> Subject: [RT] Re: FUT: time & sales needed
>
> No, I didn't enter a market or stop order. Here's what did happen, which
> still ended up costing me...
>
> Last Friday morning, I decided to check the O.J. chart out, since I
> previously noticed that there might be at least a few cents to be had on
> an anticipated leg up once a correction had run its course. It appeared
> to me after Thursday's action that the correction could be ending in a
> downward wedge, and Friday morning the price gapped down to complete the
> formation. With the price at 81.10, I put in my order to buy at 80.95 or
> better; six minutes after my order went in, it hit 80.90 and I assumed I
> had a fill (yes, I know what happens when one assumes). O.K., now prices
> go up a bit. After half an hour of waiting for a fill report, I called
> the brokerage to get confirmation - nothing back yet from the floor.
> Huh?
>
> Another 15 minutes passes, and the price drops to 80.85. Now I figure I
> must certainly be filled, but I'm getting nervous. I call again to see
> about confirmation - there's nothing. Another half an hour of sideways
> prices, and still no confirmation. Finally, with only 45 minutes left in
> the session, I call again. I'm put on hold while they call the floor,
> only to be told that both times I thought I should have had a fill, the
> exchange deleted the trades I thought happened. Typographical errors,
> I'm told. I thought I was being scammed by the CSCE, but low and behold,
> both trades that went through my price have indeed been deleted from the
> official time and sales. Can I pick a number, or what?!!
>
> It seems to me that in a market that's trading as slowly as O.J. did
> last Friday that SOMEONE could have managed to find the time to let me
> know that my order hadn't been filled, at least within half an hour of
> the second deleted trade. I guess I expect too much from them, but it
> would have been nice to know with two hours left to go as opposed to 45
> minutes, most of which was spent getting a freaking answer to a simple
> question! Naturally, prices have moved generally as I'd expected since
> waiting all frigging day for nothing! Maybe it's a fluke, but I seem to
> be receiving more than my fair share of flukey negative incidences
> lately, and it's getting old. No wonder my hair's turning gray...
>
> Better days ahead I reckon : )
>
> Agingly (?),
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <dennisconn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 1:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [RT] FUT: time & sales needed
>
> >
> >
> > Dennis L. Conn wrote:
> >
> > > Hi RT's,
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could provide the official time
> and sales in May OJ for 3/10, from 11:00 to 12:00 Eastern time.
> > >
> > > Gotta love those N.Y. markets - NOT.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Dennis C.
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > There is no doubt that the NY exchanges are the worst.
> However, he who trades very thin markets such as OJ takes added risks
> and
> > should not be surprised when they get bad fills You didn't enter a
> market order or stop did you? That would be asking to get screwed!
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Norman
> >
> >
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