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Message-ID: <38AF1AA0.86B314D0@xxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:35:12 -0800
From: Ira Tunik <ist@xxxxxx>
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To: gledhill@xxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] FW: Re: lame broker alert/DIFFERANT VWIEW
References: <LPBBIOJJABGBIIFMAMNMIEENCCAA.gledhill@xxxxx>
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There are certain things one must put up with as a trader and the incompetence
of a broker or floor broker is not one of them. If the rule would have been
made clear that there is no order cancellation within 5 min of the opening then
there is no problem, it is the traders responsibility, but to notify him after
the fact is not right. You are right about some of the uninitiated whining
about things that don't go their way, but as all new borns, a lot of crying can
be expected. I can understand the rule, it is very difficult for a floor
broker that has hundreds of orders to be culling his deck when he should be
paying attention to the bids and offers at the opening. A trader should also be
aware that even if the cancellation is accepted, what is the time allowed by the
broker or the floor broker for the order to be accepted. If the desk is loaded
with orders it take 5 to 10 min for that order to just get processed. Sounds
like a long time until you have to stand there and watch them try to process
hundreds of orders from funds, brokerage houses and individuals, make sure that
the runners take them to the right pits and give them to the right floor brokers
and that the floor brokers don't just put them in their pocket until they clear
their deck and have a chance to look at the new orders. You are not the only
one in the order flow. Unless your order is electronically matched you have a
problem and sometimes the electronic match can be more of a surprise then a
delayed fill. Ask some of those trading the E-Mini. Best of luck, Ira.
Judith Gledhill / Mark Oliver wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judith Gledhill / Mark Oliver [mailto:gledhill@xxxxx]
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 1:14 PM
> To: droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [RT] Re: lame broker alert/DIFFERANT VWIEW
>
> Hi this is not against the original complainent per se but more of a generic
> vwiew- as a trader from the hard school of knocks ive been trading 11 years
> for banks in foreign exchange/prop/futures i find it unreal that the new
> daytrader clique cry foul whenever there daypipping antics are upset. As a
> subsequent mail quite rightly points out if the guy had benefited he would
> never have complained.
> As a trader you have to take a risk you cant really think you have a right
> to place an order 1-3 min before a big economic no is about to come out on
> an internet order sytem the technology is just not there, if you want that
> right pay a bit more and take a phone broker but as is sad to say most
> daytraders abhor paying alittle more for quality.Please understand i dont
> endorse the crap guys use to get away with in order execution,crap brokers
> etc iam glad that the market gets quicker and more proffesional but i truely
> laugh when i hear the new traders whinge about the school of knocks you got
> to take ,its part of the education process .So some of you apologists out
> there with this sort of complaint please stop endorsing it SOMETIMES YOU GOT
> TO LOSE AND NOT ONLY WIN MY FRIENDS
> regards
> mark
> www.paratechnics.pair.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:listmanager@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf Of THE DOCTOR
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 4:47 AM
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [RT] Re: lame broker alert
>
> Phil,
>
> You should send your complaint in writing to one of the SROs Self
> Regulatory
> Organizations.....believe it or not the SEC does regulate the issue you
> describe. You broker, whoever they are, should get a written copy of you
> complaint with a copy to either the NASD, NYSE, CBOE, or AMEX. They
> regulate
> the brokerage industry....your best bet is probably .... for this issue....
> the
> NASD. If the trade occurred on an ECN then it most certainly the NASD. The
> SEC
> will merely forward you complaint back to NASD and you'll be adding weeks if
> not
> months to the process.
>
> Phil Lane wrote:
>
> > To whom it may concern:
> > This trade should never have happened. I had a market order entered to buy
> > 200 shares of ICCSA. On February 14th at 6:25 AM (a good 5 minutes before
> > the market opened) I attempted to cancel this order.
> >
> > Unfortunately, to my complete suprise and dismay, your web site REFUSED to
> > accept the cancel order. The edit button had just disappeared. So at 6:26
> AM
> > I called to cancel the order in person. But at 6:33 I was still on hold
> and
> > the traded was transacted against my wishes.
> >
> > Later that day your Manager of Internet Trading looked into this and told
> me
> > that from 6:25 on the internet order entry system was intentionally
> designed
> > NOT to accept cancels on market orders! And apparently that's supposed to
> > make it OK.
> >
> > HOWEVER, it is clear that if I had spoken with a live broker at 6:25 AM he
> > would have made every effort to cancel the order!!! I think your failure
> to
> > provide the same mechanism over the internet is a very serious MISTAKE,
> > since it is clearly at ODDS with the standard stock broking practices, and
> > especially since there was absolutely NO indication that this arbitrary
> and
> > capricious policy existed. THEREFORE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO INSIST THAT THIS
> > TRADE BE BROKEN and also that you repair the web site to avoid this
> problem
> > in the future.
> >
> > Please note that over the past few days I have requested to speak to
> someone
> > about this several times. On 3 distinct occasions I was promised that a
> > "manager" would call back. Believe it or not I'm still waiting for the
> phone
> > to ring. Evidently there is NO established procedure to dispute a trade,
> or
> > else I can't get anyone to tell me about it. Perhaps this email will
> > motivate someone to actually do something.
> >
> > Thanks for your attention,
> > Philip Lane
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