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The margin requirements are not set up to protect the trader or the investor,
they are set up to protect the lender. The put up the other part of the
financial requirement. If you go bust is of no concern to anyone but you. You
taking them with you is there concern. Ask the bank that went under because of
margin in 1987. Ira.
Michael Ferguson wrote:
> I gotta tell ya, "something has to be done" was the mantra of the commercial
> fishing industry a few years ago. Right now there are 10 federal and state
> agencies, all armed, that's right, with guns, pointed at commercial
> fisherman. We are being intentionally driven into bankruptcy by their
> concerted efforts.
>
> BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!
>
> I am living proof that the government has a voracious appetite for
> exercising control over the maximum number of details of your life. And once
> they take up residence, you cannot rid yourself of them. They are parasites.
> They exist to prey on you. If they were subject to the same laws we are they
> could be indicted on RICO charges.
>
> I see the problems of margin debt. I think it would be better for everyone
> in the long run if the concerned exchanges set up a graduated margin system.
> If you have 2000 in your account, no margin. Or 2% margin. If you have
> 200000 in your account, then 50%. Or whatever. If the account money is
> borrowed, no margin. Let the lenders, (the brokerages), do their due
> diligence.
>
> Trust me: you will NEVER be better off by sacrificing opportunity for
> security. Never. Ever.
>
> Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "swp" <swp@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 13:00
> Subject: [RT] Re: SEC New Margin Rule Proposal
>
> | I do not think that you can compare the two (opening a business and
> | borrowing to speculate in stocks or futures). Margin regulations were
> | created due to the huge leveraging before the 1929 crash. Brokers are
> | supposed to "know their customers". This is all being clobbered by
> | online trading. There are too many people that turn on CNBC and believe
> | the b-s Omega puts up about how they WILL get rich if they only write a
> | system.
> |
> | I do not love the government crawling all over the place, but better
> | them then a bunch of idiots taking out personal loans at 10% to buy QCOM
> | on leverage helping cause a series of bankruptcies, foreclosures and the
> | next depression when QCOM falls to 10 (NO I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WILL
> | HAPPEN OR THAT WE ARE ANYPLACE CLOSE TO THAT, JUST EXAGGERATING TO MAKE
> | A POINT).
>
> |
> | When you start a business, the bank knows exactly what you are planning
> | to do (if you told them the truth). You have a business plan and a
> | target audience/customer base. You control a lot more than you do when
> | you are trading. There is no comparison between margin and business
> | borrowing. (Even if I do believe that the market is predictable to a
> | large degree, or I would not be a market analyst.)
> |
> | Steve Poser
> |
> | ---
> | Steven W. Poser, President
> | Poser Global Market Strategies Inc.
> |
> | url: http://www.poserglobal.com
> | email: swp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> |
> | Tel: 201-995-0845
> | Fax: 201-995-0846
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: Linda Swope <lswope@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> | To: Real Traders <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; swp <swp@xxxxxxxxxx>
> | Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 1:35 PM
> | Subject: Re: [RT] Re: SEC New Margin Rule Proposal
> |
> |
> | > Actually, this trader does remember 1987 and the money she lost on
> | Black
> | > Monday. But life is a journey and not a destination. A thousand tiny
> | > steps, Black Mondays and Blue Mondays included, lead us to where we
> | stand
> | > today. Every time we stumble, we stand up straighter, smarter and
> | faster.
> | > The NYSE doesn't have the right to regulate our paths because we have
> | $1
> | > less than the next stumbling trader.
> | >
> | > And so must something be done about the people who take out personal
> | loans
> | > to start their own businesses? Would you have "done something about"
> | me
> | > when I was 22 and put every penny I could get my hands on into a
> | photography
> | > business that had a high probability of failure? Thank goodness you
> | didn't.
> | > I'd hate to have missed all those smiling faces!
> | >
> | > Linda
> | > Swope's Mountain Photography
> | > http://www.swopephoto.com
> | > linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > Climb the mountains & get their glad tidings: Peace will flow into you
> | as
> | > sunshine into flower; the winds will blow their freshness into you &
> | storms
> | > their energy, & cares will drop off you like autumn leaves. John Muir
> | 1838 -
> | > 1914
> | >
> | >
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From: swp <swp@xxxxxxxxxx>
> | > To: Linda Swope <linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:54 AM
> | > Subject: Re: [RT] Re: SEC New Margin Rule Proposal
> | >
> | >
> | > > Because that trader (with three years experience) does not remember
> | > > 1987, let alone the mid-1960s until 1975/1982)! Margins should have
> | been
> | > > raised long ago. The only reason why they have not been, is that
> | there
> | > > are too many other ways to borrow for stocks (from 401K plans, from
> | the
> | > > bank -- yes people are taking personal loans to buy stocks) and via
> | home
> | > > equity loans. So, it is not clear that raising margins will help.
> | And,
> | > > I believe the daytraders do not even fall under Reg-T, so there are
> | no
> | > > direct margin requirements even put on them! Something needs to be
> | done.
> | > > That is for sure.
> | > >
> | > > ---
> | > > Steven W. Poser, President
> | > > Poser Global Market Strategies Inc.
> | > >
> | > > url: http://www.poserglobal.com
> | > > email: swp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > >
> | > > Tel: 201-995-0845
> | > > Fax: 201-995-0846
> | > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > From: Linda Swope <lswope@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:48 PM
> | > > Subject: [RT] Re: SEC New Margin Rule Proposal
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > > Sounds reasonable to me. In this volatile market, I can't imagine
> | any
> | > > > > responsible broker extending margin to someone with only $2K in
> | his
> | > > > > account. That could be wiped out in a New York microsecond and
> | the
> | > > > > broker would be left holding the bag. I'd apply it to ALL
> | traders
> | > > and
> | > > > > forget trying to define a "pattern daytrader."
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > Yes, but what about the trader with $20,000 and 3 years of
> | experience.
> | > > Why
> | > > > are you punishing him or her with this rule? Having lots of money
> | in
> | > > your
> | > > > account doesn't mean you can make better trading decisions than
> | the
> | > > little
> | > > > guy. When I had 6 figures in my account, I made no trading
> | decisions.
> | > > It
> | > > > was just a computer game with occasional cash prizes. Study, hard
> | > > work and
> | > > > dedication make successful traders, not some arbitrary amount of
> | > > money.
> | > > >
> | > > > If the NYSE has this noble need to "protect" traders, let them
> | begin
> | > > by
> | > > > restricting margin for new traders, not little traders. But I
> | don't
> | > > condone
> | > > > restricting anybody. Trading is just another attempt at
> | > > self-employment and
> | > > > we all have that right.
> | > > >
> | > > > Linda
> | > > > Swope's Mountain Photography
> | > > > http://www.swopephoto.com
> | > > > linda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > > > Climb the mountains & get their glad tidings: Peace will flow into
> | you
> | > > as
> | > > > sunshine into flower; the winds will blow their freshness into you
> | &
> | > > storms
> | > > > their energy, & cares will drop off you like autumn leaves. John
> | Muir
> | > > 1838 -
> | > > > 1914
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > > From: Dennis Holverstott <dennis@xxxxxxxxxx>
> | > > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 7:59 AM
> | > > > Subject: [RT] Re: SEC New Margin Rule Proposal
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > > > As you may have heard already, NYSE and NASD are proposing to
> | > > raise the
> | > > > > > minimum equity requirements to trade equities on margin from
> | the
> | > > current
> | > > > $2K
> | > > > > > to $25K for "pattern daytraders" - whatever that means.
> | > > > >
> | > > > > >
> | > > > > --
> | > > > > Dennis
> | > > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
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