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Is everyone getting this message repeatedly?
Something must be wrong with the system, surely Scot
isn't trying to irritate the entire list!
-Neal.
At 12:30 PM 12/8/99 -0600, Scot Billington wrote:
>...Gann and Gilmore's enormous fortunes. Gann, who allegedly made $50
>million in the 20s-30s trading futures, would have a fortune of $1.6 billion
>if it earned 6% from then until now. Where is all this money? Gilmore has
>been around selling books, seminars, and programs for over 10 years. He has
>obviously sold tons of them as it has kept him alive. Out of all of those
>students, why are none of them big time money managers today? I am looking
>for one disciple. Before anyone starts in on the regular retorts, which I
>ADMIT have SOME merit, do not forget that 15 years ago Dennis and Eckhardt
>taught their methods to 24 people and 4 of them are among the largest CTAs
>in the world today. Both the teachers are too. How many gazillions of
>people have read Gann books and Gilmore's stuff? Are any of them successful
>CTAs? Out of all the authors and experts on Gann, why are none of them
>money managers? Why do they continue to sell books? I could see selling
>some to finance a trading nest egg, but the authors and names are the same.
>A lot of them do well in letter writing contests and some even win little
>trading tournaments. I don't doubt that there will be multiple replies to
>this talking about the author's 600% return in two weeks after drawing a
>Gann angle (which by the way crosses different points depending on the size
>of your graph paper and how much you assign to each box.). None of those
>repliers will have been successful over 10 years. None will have an NFA
>audited track record. They will be plenty mad and plenty sure of
>themselves.
>
>There are certainly an infinite number of ways to make money in the markets.
>I am open to the possibility that ANY type of method could produce an edge.
>I'll test anything. Some of you should perhaps open your mind to the
>possibility that Gann/Gilmore/Elliott Wave/Time and price etc. do not create
>an edge and merely produce random trades. Many of your successful examples
>are the ultimate form of curve fitting.
>
>sb
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Don Thompson <detomps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:20 AM
>Subject: [RT] Re: First and Foremost {02}
>
>
>>
>> Myles,
>>
>> I guess the answer is in Gann's Natal chart. To defer to typical astro
>> cop out..
>> All those planets in the 9th house pushing him to get answers to his
>> questions.
>>
>> The point I didn't make is that Gann used both, astrology and Price-Time
>> squaring.
>> If you have the Astrology mastered but not the Price-Time squareing
>> mastered, you leave yourself vulnerable to Mr. Drawdown, since price has
>> the tendancy to invert on Astronomical cycles. And is no way predictable
>> in advance. Much to the consernation of most Astro Forecasters.. The
>> standard stupid answer when astro doesn't work is that, "uuuhhhh it
>> didn't work this time, must be an inversion"..
>>
>> I questioned Gilmore about the soybean chart in Kaufman's book. He said
>> that is what got him started. His point, which I will reiterate, it was
>> the squaring of time and price that nailed THE TIME of the CIT- NOT THE
>> ASTRO in soybeans. I gather from watching the guy call his trades in
>> public that he uses solar degrees as a TIMING mechanism but only as
>> part of his arsenal of analysis.
>>
>> So once again. When time and price square then there is a change in
>> trend, Not before. All else is "Tunnel through your Wallet".
>>
>> I honestly have no problem with astrology. It has proven itself to me.
>> It is the wonderland of Time-Price squaring that holds the second side
>> of Gann's thesis.
>> So, at this point in my research career, it is proven to me well enough
>> that the Gann man had something else going besides raw astro power in
>> nailing his trades.
>>
>> Conjunctively,
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
>> "myles@xxxxxx" wrote:
>>
>> > So Why would Gann bother with astrology if he already had this
>> > fantastic system worked out?
>> > Myles Wilson Walker.
>> >
>> > Don Thompson wrote:
>> >
>> > > Norman,
>> > >
>> > > I recently heard the same thing from Bryce Gilmore, It was his
>> > > contention that Gann had the price time theory mapped out and making
>> > >
>> > > money before he connected it to Astrology. Gilmore's testing is
>> > > that
>> > > any CIT of major import is nailed by precise geometrical
>> > > relationships,
>> > > usually 3 to 4 or so. Squaringly,
>> > >
>> > > Don
>> > >
>> > > nwinski wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Adam Hefner wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > I am not a Gann expert, but it is my understanding that Gann
>> > > developed his
>> > > > > geometry methods early in his career, and didn't use astrology
>> > > until his
>> > > > > later years......so I question the "First and foremost".
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Adam Hefner,
>> > > >
>> > > > My source of information is someone who was Gann's partner
>> > > for 10 years and
>> > > > his father worked with Gann before he did. Both son and father
>> > > were Astrologers.
>> > > > What is your source of information?
>> > > > Anyone read "Tunnel Thru The Air"? It is a gold mine of hidden
>> > > Astrological
>> > > > patterns. It tells what Astrological patterns Gann used to trade
>> > > the markets.
>> > > > But, you have to know enough Astrology to be able to check out
>> > > Gann's dates in
>> > > > an ephemeris. This book has been fully decoded by Bonnie Hill on
>> > > video via a
>> > > > lecture she gave about 3 years ago.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cosmically,
>> > > >
>> > > > Norman
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: "nwinski" <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > > Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:03 PM
>> > > > > Subject: [RT] Re: Gen: Keep it quiet. {02}
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Brent wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I have been reading one of Gann's books I'm astounded by
>> > > just the few
>> > > > > things
>> > > > > > > that I've read in the first 50 pages. I have been writing
>> > > indicators to
>> > > > > test
>> > > > > > > these things and I can't hardly believe my eyes. No one must
>> > > actually
>> > > > > read
>> > > > > > > this stuff. I never hear anyone talk about it. I'm seriously
>> > > thinking of
>> > > > > > > throwing all my old analysis away. I didn't think much about
>> > > Gann until
>> > > > > I
>> > > > > > > figured out how to put Gann angles on charts. After that I
>> > > could see
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > > there might be something to it. I'm just dumbfounded.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Brent,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Just wait until you add Astrology to your analysis.
>> > > First and
>> > > > > foremost,
>> > > > > > Gann was an Astrology.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Best Wishes,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Norman
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>>
>>
>
>
-----------------
Neal on the 'net.
Trade well. Train hard.
http://www.halcyon.com/neal/
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