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Norman - Bets summary I have seen to date <g>!
JW
Copyright © 1999
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of nwinski
Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 1:34 PM
To: James Taylor
Cc: Howard Hopkins; JW@xxxxxxxxxxxx; realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: GEN: MS/JUSTICE DEPT RULING?
What the Microsoft thing is really about is that there is an unwritten
rule
that we have free markets
as long as no one fish gets so big it threatens the existence of all the
other
fish. At that point, all the other fish have the right to change the rules
or
whatever is necessary to carve that huge fish down to
a more manageable size. 1869, Fisk and Gould threatened to corner the Gold
market. President Grant
intervened and flooded the market with gold to break the corner and leave
Mr.
Fish in ruins.
1980, Hunts threatened to corner the Silver market. Silver approaches $52
per
oz.. Exchange rules were changed to favor the shorts and raise margins for
the
longs while the govt. looked the other way. The corner was broken. At one
point
IBM was considered too big, so they went after IBM. This has nothing to do
with
customers or innovation. It is simple that no one player, by virture of its
size
and power, is allowed to threatened the ability for others to thrive or
threaten
the game itself.. Bill Gates is now approaching a net worth of $100 Billion.
This
is so much bigger than any one else and a possible threat to the US govt
that it
causes an econ-ecological imbalance. The other fish are not happy and demand
that
the king fish in Washington DC do something before there are no more fish in
the
pond.
The King Fish go after the BIG fish and so get lots of campaign donations
and
jobs for their lawyer and judge friends. Big Fish gets a trim and everyone
lives
happily ever after.
Fishingly,
Norman
James Taylor wrote:
> As Microsoft would say: We had nothing to do with it. We have the
> consumers best interest in mind, we only want to innovate, and expand our
> products features. It is the competitions fault that they can't compete.
> I think, with that said, this case whould be thrown out and my client be
> vindicated.
>
> Microsoft knows, as do the slick bandits of the beltway, that most US
> citizens are either stupid, too busy running on the gerbil wheel trying to
> make a living, or too gullible to understand the truth. Most lies and
> deceit will be believed, and not questioned. White collar crime pays.
> The multidute of laws that this company has perpetrated on US consumers
and
> US coporations is a damn shame. I just hope the prosecutors persue the
> penalty phase as diligently as they have in the discovery and presentation
> of the case.
>
> One thing is for certain, the raft of coming lawsuits will hit these
> pirates at Microsoft hard. Their lawyers will be busy for decades tryign
> to defend against them all. I can only hope they are forced out of
> business in the end.
>
> -------------
> At 10:13 PM 11/7/99 EST, Howard Hopkins wrote:
> >Who wrote this James Taylor or James Carville?
> >
> >
> >>From: James Taylor <jptaylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: "JW" <JW@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Subject: RE: GEN: MS/JUSTICE DEPT RULING?
> >>Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:56:11 -0800
> >>
> >>Put Gates in jail, and throw away the key. He and his monopolistic
machine
> >>makes me sick. "persecution", how dare you say such nonsense. If you
had
> >>followed the trial and the mountain of evidence, and had any common
sense,
> >>you would see just how vile the scumbags at Microsoft are, and you might
> >>understand why folks like me despise them with so much passion.
> >>
> >>The government can't fine or penalize them enough to recouperate the
> >>damages Microsoft has done to so many lives and businesses. The crimes
> >>they have caluculatedly commited are numerous, and many are still
unknown
> >>to the gullible, sleeping public.
> >>
> >>If there was anything I could do to personally bring these bastards to
> >>justice, I would do it. My faith in the justice system and the desire
for
> >>people to do the right thing was strengthened, now is time do determine
> >>just how many laws were broken, and for them to throw the book at them.
No
> >>negotiations, no deals, just hard-nosed fines and break-up of this
> >>repressive monopoly.
> >>If it takes 5 more years in the courts, so be it. Gates' cocky attitude
> >>will serve him well. If I were one of the prosecutors, it would burn in
my
> >>mind as I pursued the case. Fuel to help them put in long hours.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--------
> >>At 12:52 AM 11/7/99 -0800, JW wrote:
> >> >I think this whole persecution of MS by the government is a load of
crap.
> >> >The primary issue was whether or not MS could include a browser (IE)
> >> >integrated into Win95. All the rest of the "dirt" that was dug up can
> >>only
> >> >be related to this question. Should MS be allowed to build and
configure
> >> >their OS to meet perceived market requirements? Or should they be
> >>required
> >> >to provide support for a competitor?
> >> >
> >> >The market was well on its way to dealing with MS's market share and
> >> >sometimes questionable business practices via the increasing
> >>pervasiveness
> >> >of the internet. With the net, all that's needed is a browser to
access
> >>a
> >> >net enabled application. And that browser can be running on a PC a
Mac,
> >>a
> >> >Linux machine, a Palm Pilot, Net Terminal or any other net appliance.
As
> >> >the bandwidth pipe size increases and continues to come down in cost,
we
> >> >will eventually access all of our applications ad-hoc, downloading and
> >> >running them as we need. Most people will have little use or need for
a
> >> >major OS at home like Windows, Unix, Mac/OS or anything else. Then we
> >>won't
> >> >have to worry about GPF type errors, application code updates,
viruses,
> >>etc.
> >> >
> >> >I think most sane people would agree that the government, as it
presently
> >> >stands, has exhibited a less than sterling record in terms of vision
and
> >> >innovation. Hell, our tax code gets more unfathomable year by year
> >>while
> >> >Congress accomplishes less with each session. Why would anyone want
the
> >> >government to control the makeup or marketing of software? There
aren't
> >>any
> >> >public safety issues here, like in the automobile, for example.
Speaking
> >>of
> >> >cars, my car has a big multi-function radio/cassette player/CD
embedded
> >>in
> >> >the console. I can't change it without rebuilding the whole
dashboard.
> >>Why
> >> >doesn't Alpine or other independents start a lawsuit against car
> >> >manufacturers in an attempt to force them to add a standard size radio
> >>slot
> >> >for an Alpine radio? Isn't Alpine business being hurt by those car
> >> >companies that don't provide it an opportunity to offer its product to
> >> >consumers? Isn't my choice being restricted? What is Janet Reno
going
> >>to
> >> >do about this <LOL>?
> >> >
> >> >Despite the rhetoric of the far left, a government cannot make every
> >>person
> >> >and business equal. Similarly, everyone's opportunity cannot be made
> >>equal
> >> >nor can a completely flat playing field be provided for everyone. We
> >>are
> >> >not all equal and life is not fair.
> >> >
> >> >But aren't we all creatures of nature? And hasn't nature proven to be
> >> >notoriously unfair (species come and go, die out, big animals eat
smaller
> >> >animals, etc.)? If an animal or plant population gets too big
> >>(figuratively
> >> >speaking), then nature somehow trims them back through various means
> >> >(famine, disease, weather, disasters,...). But mankind and
governments
> >> >always seem to think that they can artificially supplant natural rule
and
> >>do
> >> >a better job. Let natural law rule through the market place. MS
would
> >>have
> >> >gotten its due through the marketplace.
> >> >
> >> >Here is a link that you might want to check out about the MS case:
> >> >
> >>
>http://www.moraldefense.com/Campaigns/Microsoft/Antitrust_FAQ/default.htm
> >> >
> >> >With regards to government and equality, I would highly recommend
reading
> >> >Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.'s 1961 short story titled Harrison Bergeron. I
found
> >>a
> >> >link to the story on the net at:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.crosslink.net/~jbloom/harrison.html
> >> >
> >> >JW
> >> >Copyright © 1999
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >[mailto:owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Earl Adamy
> >> >Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 5:54 PM
> >> >To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >Subject: Re: GEN: MS/JUSTICE DEPT RULING?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I don't think it is at all funny, but it is long overdue. As an active
> >> >developer and among the pioneer (Win286) Windows adopters and
developers
> >>at
> >> >a time when current wisdom held that DesqView would rule the
multi-window
> >> >desktop, I have observed, applauded and criticized Microsoft at close
> >>range.
> >> >Microsoft exhibited the best of free market business in wresting the
> >>desktop
> >> >from QuarterDeck. Since doing so, they have provided developers and
> >> >consumers with the benefits of a uniform UI. However they have been
> >> >relentless in their campaign to insure that no business or developer
with
> >> >which they either competed, or thought they might compete, had the
free
> >> >market opportunity to do the same. The power of the UI vested
Microsoft
> >>with
> >> >unbridled power ... they have done everything the government claimed
and
> >>a
> >> >great deal more.
> >> >
> >> >Microsoft, does charge what they want to charge - the prices of
> >>everything
> >> >else in the PC world have come down many fold while the price of
Windows
> >>has
> >> >increased, albeit nominally. Microsoft, is a monopolist but no
monopolist
> >> >with half a brain charges so much that they drive customers away.
> >> >
> >> >The last thing I want is the Clinton luddites controlling the destiny
of
> >>the
> >> >software business, but it is the job of the government to insure a
truly
> >> >free market economy and the had failed miserably to provide an
> >>environment
> >> >in which Microsoft competitors could survive. I will note one more
> >> >government free market failing which will come home to roost in future
> >>years
> >> >.... mergers are in large measure being driven by lack of business
> >>pricing
> >> >power and the desire to curtail global production to more profitable
> >>levels.
> >> >Guess what is going to happen when the number of global competitors
has
> >>been
> >> >significantly winnowed and global corporations deem themselves beyond
the
> >> >anti-trust reach of any one government.
> >> >
> >> >Earl
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: Howard Hopkins <hehohop@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >To: <joe6964@xxxxxxxx>; <GREHERT@xxxxxxx>
> >> >Cc: <Proffittak@xxxxxxx>; <chmeyer@xxxxxxxx>;
<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 8:30 AM
> >> >Subject: Re: GEN: MS/JUSTICE DEPT RULING?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Joe,
> >> >>
> >> >> You think it's funny that the government is stepping in and forcing
> >>it's
> >> >> will into the free market?????? I think it's scary!!
> >> >>
> >> >> Windows may not be the best OS around, but MSFT has certainly kept
it
> >> >> affordable. A true monopoly could charge whatever they want because
of
> >> >> inelastic demand.
> >> >>
> >> >> Question: Where would we be as a networked society, if in 1980 AAPL
> >>has
> >> >> opened up there OS? Would AAPL be the one under
> >>persecution/prosecution?
> >> >> What if MSFT hadn't controlled the OS market and there were 5 or
more
> >>OS
> >> >in
> >> >> the beginning each with equal market share of pc's OS? A simple
> >>unified
> >> >OS
> >> >> brought about the proliferation of the PC onto almost everyone's
> >>desktop.
> >> >>
> >> >> I beleive without MSFT's dominance we would be years behind where we
> >>are
> >> >> now. Bill Gates "ruthless greed" should be applauded not punished
but
> >>if
> >> >it
> >> >> is to be punished it should be by the free markets, not Janet Reno's
> >> >> hinchman.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just my thoughts,
> >> >> Howard
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >From: Joe Frabosilio <joe6964@xxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >To: GREHERT@xxxxxxx
> >> >> >CC: Proffittak@xxxxxxx, chmeyer@xxxxxxxx, realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >Subject: Re: GEN: MS/JUSTICE DEPT RULING?
> >> >> >Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 07:43:47 -0600
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Sorry Jerry,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I got a little missed guided there. Spread a little panic, no I
just
> >> >think
> >> >> >it
> >> >> >funny that MSFT finally got hit in the face. Got to do some more
> >> >research.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Thanks,
> >> >> >Joe Frabosilio
> >> >> >
> >> >> >GREHERT@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Now aren't we missing the prices of the 7 baby bells that
resulted
> >> >from
> >> >> >the
> >> >> > > break up.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Are you trying to spread a little panic?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Jerry Rehert
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________________________________
> >> >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
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