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I lost $300 on that trade, got the commissions back for 6 previous trades
that I made with the broker, $150, and closed my account out with them.
They were pretty pathetic, anyway. (Advertise on CNBC as Are Your Trades
Important To You, They are to Us To, what BS). They advertise their brokers
are experts, yet the majority of them did not even know what symbols to use
on their internet site for options! Yes, these were the Internet
specialists for the brokerage house.
Brokers, from my experience with the majority of them, will tell you
whatever they need to to get you to accept a bad fill. Face it, it's a lot
easier if you accept the fill than for them to have to spend the time trying
to argue with the CBOE, which is practically fruitless anyway. Why would
the CBOE give you your money back. What's the point! If trade A is 5,
trade B is 6, trade C is 5, all in a matter of seconds, the market at the
time of trade B is 6, and that is that. I more often than not, now that I
use limit orders, get my orders filled at or less than what I put the order
in for. When I used to use market orders, I usually, most of the time, got
taken for a 1/16 or an 1/8 more than what the market was when I put the
order in.
The market maker is out to get your money, you are out to get his. Why
would he give you your money back if he doesn't have to?
Kohath
----- Original Message -----
From: THE DOCTOR <droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: kohath <kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Dick Crotinger <dangle@xxxxxxx>; <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: OPTN: How can they do that?
> If your broker admitted it was a bad fill why did he accept it? He has a
> responsibility to you. Floor culture is such that brokers NEVER make
mistakes.
> A good broker would not trade with whoever filled the order ever again.
There
> is a crowd of folks who trade and a good broker works the crowd to their
> customers advantage. If your broker didn't he in fact may just be trying
to
> shift responsibility. If they a get a fill and know it is bad ... what
are they
> doing for a living? There isn't a specialist trading the product... there
is a
> crowd of people competeing...if your broker didn't get them to compete and
you
> paid for their lack of effort then you really out to consider the quality
of
> that relationship.
>
> In my experience ... 9 times out of 10 bad fills are a result of lazy
brokers.
>
> kohath wrote:
>
> > If there are no extraordinary circumstances then you got a bad fill and
> > your broker should
> > either get it corrected or make good on it themselves.
> >
> > You may as well by a lottery ticket if you are hoping for them to give
your
> > money back.
> > I had a bad fill about a year ago, not 1/16 but $1.5, (on a market
order)
> > and my broker agreed that it was a bad fill. We both had the data for
the
> > time of the fill. Call CBOE, what do you think they said, sorry, here's
> > your money, hardly, Sorry, the market was at XX and there is nothing we
can
> > do about it, it was a fast market. Yes, very fast, for them, probably
> > millions made that afternoon in a few hours off suckers like me (and
you!).
> > That is why I never use market orders. Talk to the woman who placed two
or
> > three trades on an IPO in the morning, wanting to go only about $3,000,
> > ended up $250,000 in debt. That's what happens when you do not use
limit
> > orders.
> >
> > kohath
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: THE DOCTOR <droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: Dick Crotinger <dangle@xxxxxxx>
> > Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: OPTN: How can they do that?
> >
> > > Market or marketable limit is assured a 20 up market. If the
> > circumstances are
> > > as you describe and the option is a single list you are entitled to a
fill
> > at
> > > 5/8 and your broker should go back into the crowd and claim it.
However
> > having
> > > said that ...IN ALMOST EVERY CASE ... there is something more to the
> > story.
> > > Have you queried your broker?
> > >
> > > Is it possible that because of today's power problems your order was
> > either
> > > rerouted or handled manually instead of electronically. If there are
no
> > > extraordinary circumstances then you got a bad fill and your broker
should
> > > either get it corrected or make good on it themselves. The fact that
an
> > option
> > > is thing is irrelevant for a small order. The machines are set at 20
> > contracts
> > > on all the exchanges.
> > >
> > > Dick Crotinger wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just closed a trade in an equity option, OILHV, at 1515 EST.
My
> > > > screen (DTN) showed the BID at 5/8, which had fluctuated at 5/8 -
11/16
> > most
> > > > of the afternoon. 95 contracts traded so far. I felt the stock was
> > > > correcting and decided to close my long trade in the call option.
The
> > > > option suddenly dipped to 9/16 bid five minutes AFTER placing my
Dreyfus
> > > > order, which is where I was then filled. Dreyfus fills this kind of
> > trade
> > > > all the time almost immediately (~30 seconds)... this one took five
> > minutes.
> > > > The option then IMMEDIATELY went back to 5/8 bid. The option during
the
> > > > last 15 minutes prior to the close started bidding at 9/16.
> > > >
> > > > I KNOW this is a thinly traded option (948 contracts)(but what
is
> > > > "thinly?"). I KNOW that a market order is for he who wants an
absolute
> > > > unconditional exit... that's why I use it when I want to pull a
trade.
> > (My
> > > > entries are limits). But this pisses me off. The trade size was 10
> > > > contracts, and I was under the impression that a market order to the
bid
> > or
> > > > ask is GUARANTEED at least a 30-contract fill. Why did this trade
go a
> > > > notch lower, to the "screw-em" point? HOW CAN THEY DO THAT?
> > > >
> > > > This is not a big financial deal... he got the teenie and I
didn't.
> > But
> > > > I have to believe that CBOT et al are not happy with the recent
several
> > > > years reduction in participation by "the public." Well, it's
because of
> > > > this kind of stuff. Most of the time, I'm happy with my 10-second
fills
> > > > using the above approach, but once in a while this happens...
> > > >
> > > > Doc... anybody... is this the only way to do this kind of trading?
Why
> > > > don't market orders get filled at the market?
> > > >
> > > > Dick Crotinger
> > >
> > >
>
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