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Edelina:
You misread my statement. I said I did NOT buy the seat. (See below).
came close to buying a seat on the Merk. in 1968, last sale
>at the time was $12,500. A few years ago it hit over $800,000. I hope
>this is the only stupid thing I admit to on here.
Norman E.
Edelina wrote:
> oh NORMAN.... BUY THE SIT AT 12000 SOLD IT AT 8000000
>
> YOU ARE REALLY A GOOD BUSINESS MAN.........
>
> SINCE THEN YOU BOUGHT 1000000000 mICROSOFT
>
> AND NOW YOU ARE A VERY RICH MAN!!!!!
>
> Ä ......WHAT ELSE YOU HAVE DONE ?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Norman E. Phair <ericrogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Freitag, 7. Mai 1999 18:08
> Subject: Re: Stops/Michael
>
> >Gary:
> >
> >Your skepticism of most of the comments about the floor traders running
> >stops is well founded. I have so far been able to keep
> >my little fingers from spouting off about this subject which will make a
> >lot of people here happy, because when I start I have a problem
> >stopping. I came close to buying a seat on the Merk. in 1968, last sale
> >at the time was $12,500. A few years ago it hit over $800,000. I hope
> >this is the only stupid thing I admit to on here. In 1984 I went back
> >to NY from CA and considered buying a seat on the NY Futures Exchange.
> >I decided against that for weather reasons. This is all I intend to say
> >at this time
> >concerning this subject.
> >
> >Norman E.
> >
> >Gary Fritz wrote:
> >
> >> Ira wrote:
> >> > It is no secret where the stops are. YOu can look at any chart
> >> > and see. They also get the breakout traders. they take the market
> >> > to a new high and then slam it. You can do anything you want on or
> >> > off of the floor if you know how.
> >>
> >> That's all fairly common knowledge, but I want to ask a really basic
> >> and probably naive question:
> >>
> >> **HOW** do the floor traders "take the market" anywhere?
> >>
> >> It seems to me, from a simplistic point of view, that at any moment
> >> there is a "fair price" for any commodity. That's the agreed-upon
> >> price arrived at by buyers and sellers in the market at that moment.
> >> How does the floor trader disrupt that balance and move the price
> >> away from its "real" fair price, then "slam it" back again?
> >>
> >> I assume that the stop-runner moves the price by e.g. bidding well
> >> above the current price with a small number of contracts. Then, once
> >> the market moves up to his bid and gets to the area where all the buy
> >> stops are sitting, he sells aggressively into those stops. The
> >> selling pressure (and the sudden lack of artificially-high bids) then
> >> moves the market back to its "real" price. Any losses that the
> >> runner suffers on his bids are more than made up by the profits on
> >> his larger sells.
> >>
> >> Is that about right?
> >>
> >> What's always confused me about this scenario is WHY the market would
> >> follow the stop-runner's bids like obedient sheep. Is the market
> >> really so easy to manipulate (at least during the thin periods that I
> >> assume are the prime stop-running times) that a few contracts bid
> >> above the current price will move the whole shebang? Wouldn't the
> >> runner have to keep bidding and bidding and bidding above the market,
> >> or else the previous supply/demand forces would come into play and
> >> snap the market back to its former equilibrium? (Or are the runner's
> >> few contracts enough to *change* that equilibrium??) How does the
> >> runner keep the market moving to his desired target -- do the rest of
> >> the floor traders smell blood too, and help him move it?
> >>
> >> Lastly, Ira, you say you can do it on or off the floor. I'm having a
> >> little trouble imagining how a single small (or even fairly large)
> >> off-floor trader could initiate a market move like that, unless he's
> >> able to spark the same blood-lust on the floor that the on-floor
> >> runner was relying on. Is that really do-able, or just theoretically
> >> possible? Or are you saying that the smart off-floor trader will
> >> WATCH for one of these stop-running moves, and sell when the price
> >> reaches the obvious stop-resting point, just like the runner did?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Gary
> >
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