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<DIV>Ira, Gary, Andrew and all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There's a difference in my mind between despising the advertising glitz to
which we're subjected, and being willing to take the payoff of a winning trade.
I agree with Ira on the one hand, but if someone on the other side of my trade
loses their last dollar then shame on them and hooray for me. That doesn't mean
I don't have any compassion for their situation, but neither will I take
responsibility for their foolishness. I've never resented the fact that my
losers put money in someone else's pocket - hell, I've blown out before. But if
anyone thinks we need Senate subcommittees to "look into this matter",
it's just one more step down the road to total abrogation of personal
responsibility.</DIV>
<DIV>I don't equate the concept of willingly entering a trade that could be your
last with the analogy of losing your wallet and finding the money gone when it's
returned. Shame on the person who was careless, but carelessness isn't the same
thing as knowingly assuming the risk of a trade. Personally, I'd return their
money with the wallet because I'd prefer that someone do the same for me. Now if
the Brink's truck overturned... hmm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dennis C.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
</B>Andrew <<A
href="mailto:andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To:
</B>RealTraders Discussion Group <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Thursday, April 01, 1999 16:52<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Bull
Market<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>I have heard this over and over....<BR>This
concept of not wanting to take money from another trader is
absolutely<BR>absurd. do people really suffer from this? If you are in this
game then you<BR>know or should know the risk. If you loose money to me,
then you miss judged<BR>the market and I got it right.<BR>I deserve the
money. The tables will turn and I will give some back.. with<BR>hard
work<BR>I will improve my analysis ability and take more then I give up. You
win you<BR>loose.<BR>If you loose to much, move on. find another game. This
is not for you.<BR>I just don't understand the argument that some traders
can't take money form<BR>another trader...<BR>Does anyone really suffer from
this? It is not like the money I make in the<BR>markets is<BR>from widows
and orphans. These are traders that have accepted the risk.<BR>Anyone else
find this concept ridiculous?<BR><BR><BR>Have a good holiday... whichever it
is.<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: gary gray <<A
href="mailto:ggray@xxxxxxxxx";>ggray@xxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>To: RealTraders
Discussion Group <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>Date:
Thursday, April 01, 1999 1:13 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Bull
Market<BR><BR><BR>>It's not necessarily work input. There are plenty of
"traders" who put<BR>>forth tremendous effort and resources and
still fall in the 90%. And<BR>>that's ok. If 9 traders<BR>>lose $2,000
in a month and you are the one who "takes" their
$18,000<BR>>than so be it... It really is at a subconscious
level. Many can't<BR>>handle the idea of "taking"
something from someone else. Trading<BR>>(blackjack,horses,lotto,etc,etc)
are all Zero sum. If I<BR>>take it you are giving (losing) it to
me. The test is so simple but<BR>>people get so erked at
this.<BR>><BR>>If someone is walking down the street and they drop a
wallet with money<BR>>you (as a trader with the proper "gimmie"
subconscious) will take the<BR>>wallet grab the cash and maybe put the
wallet in a mailbox. That's just<BR>>the way it is. That is why so
many "brilliant" traders' develop and<BR>>sell systems.
When they try to trade they invariably screw-up and have<BR>>net losers
over time. They would rather give up the "wallet" and
say<BR>>"here you dropped this". when they "drop
it" on the trading floor...you<BR>>MUST be willing to take
it.<BR>><BR>>How many times have you come off a losing trade that was
"set up so<BR>>perfect" and said "this can't be",
"I don't believe it"!!! Go ahead and<BR>>call me a
fool...<BR>>that's why it's 90/10 and not 60/40...<BR>><BR>>---
Norman Phair <<A
href="mailto:ericrogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>ericrogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>>
wrote:<BR>>> I have heard figures as high as 90% of the
people<BR>>> that do day trading<BR>>> fail. No work, no
reward.<BR>>><BR>>> Norman E,<BR>>><BR>>> >
"Peter M. Beckwith" wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Great
post, Ira.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Not only are there more on-line
trading commercials<BR>>> than beer and auto<BR>>> >
commercials, but the content and substance of these<BR>>> commercials
is<BR>>> > completely off-line. The firms that sponsor
these<BR>>> commercials hire<BR>>> > teams of lawyers to
settle suitability of<BR>>> investment lawsuits and<BR>>> >
arbitration suits all them time from people who<BR>>> lost their
shirts(not<BR>>> > to mention their homes) after daytrading on
the<BR>>> internet for a couple<BR>>> > of months. You
would think that after all of the<BR>>> horror stories out<BR>>>
> there about people who didn't understand what<BR>>> margin was or
that if<BR>>> > the stock goes against you x percent you have
to<BR>>> meet the cash<BR>>> > requirement, the firms
themselves would take a more<BR>>> responsible<BR>>> >
stance. Instead, most of us who keep CNBC on in<BR>>> the
background have<BR>>> > to watch an Ameritrade commercial about a
mom and<BR>>> housewive who can<BR>>> > take the kids to
school and throw some money in a<BR>>> biotech company to<BR>>>
> the tune of $1700/day or the guy who owns his own<BR>>> island,
etc...<BR>>> ><BR>>> > I don't know what we are going to
see with this<BR>>> market, but one day(I<BR>>> > hope) we
can look back and just laugh at how absurd<BR>>> those
commercials<BR>>> > really were. I am hoping it is sooner
rather than<BR>>> later and then<BR>>> > maybe, just maybe
the public will understand that<BR>>> trading is a<BR>>> >
profession, not a hobby that you take up in your<BR>>> spare
time...<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Pete Beckwith<BR>>>
><BR>>>
><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>>===<BR>>Regards,<BR>><BR>>Gary<BR>><BR>>The
Best Global Telecom Price$<BR>>Guaranteed...<BR>><A
href="http://LD.net/?garywgray";>http://LD.net/?garywgray</A><BR>>_________________________________________________________<BR>>Do
You Yahoo!?<BR>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <A
href="http://mail.yahoo.com";>http://mail.yahoo.com</A><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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At 02:15 PM 4/1/99 -0800, Ira wrote:
>It is funny to listen to this win lose argument.
I've always found that my biggest enemy was always the second-guessing
"Me." The one that reanalyzed something I'd already taken a position in.
The one filled with doubt. I will always return a lost wallet with the cash
intact. That doesn't stop me from taking a profit in futures. And when I
take a loss, the 'bad' losses are usually because of my own lack of
discipline ( as opposed to a 'good' loss, where you stuck to your guns, but
you got stopped out.)
PG
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