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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Then again what more can we expect from an
industry that by all measures has lost its commission structure and so
desperately needs to generate revenue. It used to be a game for the rich,
but now the industry is trying to take in the everyman by promising him the
riches if only he opens up an account and points and clicks all day long for $8
a trade. Apparently, they are all buying it. Needless to say, it is
a great scheme and it's only further promoted by the
media...</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Apr 01 14:24:24 1999
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From: "Denis Rochat" <denis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Exchanges
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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Trying to understand the mechanics of Pro A
T-Bonds. If I take a T Bond position on CBOT can I liquidate on Pro A or vice
versa? Is it all the same with a different machine running it after hrs or are
they completely separate?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks for some elementary futures education.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Denis Rochat</FONT></DIV>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Apr 01 14:24:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:11:11 -0800
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From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Bull Market
References: <009c01be7c89$1cc52b00$a41bd4cf@x>
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It is funny to listen to this win lose argument. If you know what you are
doing, and know how to utilize the instruments that are out there, then you will
win. If the party on the other side of the trade also knows what he is doing
and uses the instruments available, he too can be profitable. In that situation
both parties win and no one loses. It is the uniformed and those who are
constantly reading one book or another to find the answers that will pay their
dues. Either they learn the craft after losing a ton of money or they blow out
and look for retraining at government expense. One pays for their education,
either you find someone who knows what they are doing and you trust, and pay
them to teach you or you keep going at it trial and error and maybe never get
there. If you find a teacher you trust and one that will follow up, that is the
least expensive way to go.
Everyone seems to forget that it is all fictitious. In futures there is no
reality as the futures and options are created and have no relationship to
reality other then what one analyst or another has to say about what happened
after the fact. Do you really know the acreage in Brazil and the weather? Is
the government ever right about the planting and crop progress? If grains are
cheap why are they selling livestock? If the government is right why do funds
and consumers hire their own weather service and field surveys? It is all
perception. Will any of the funds or traders take delivery on a future. If too
many futures are sold and the floor traders can't deliver, they just change the
rules and say that you can't ask for delivery and have to sell back to them.
When you own the house, you make the rules.
Once again knowledge is power and understanding makes for success.
Have a happy Holiday, Ira
Andrew wrote:
> I have heard this over and over....
> This concept of not wanting to take money from another trader is absolutely
> absurd. do people really suffer from this? If you are in this game then you
> know or should know the risk. If you loose money to me, then you miss judged
> the market and I got it right.
> I deserve the money. The tables will turn and I will give some back.. with
> hard work
> I will improve my analysis ability and take more then I give up. You win you
> loose.
> If you loose to much, move on. find another game. This is not for you.
> I just don't understand the argument that some traders can't take money form
> another trader...
> Does anyone really suffer from this? It is not like the money I make in the
> markets is
> from widows and orphans. These are traders that have accepted the risk.
> Anyone else find this concept ridiculous?
>
> Have a good holiday... whichever it is.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gary gray <ggray@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 1:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Bull Market
>
> >It's not necessarily work input. There are plenty of "traders" who put
> >forth tremendous effort and resources and still fall in the 90%. And
> >that's ok. If 9 traders
> >lose $2,000 in a month and you are the one who "takes" their $18,000
> >than so be it... It really is at a subconscious level. Many can't
> >handle the idea of "taking" something from someone else. Trading
> >(blackjack,horses,lotto,etc,etc) are all Zero sum. If I
> >take it you are giving (losing) it to me. The test is so simple but
> >people get so erked at this.
> >
> >If someone is walking down the street and they drop a wallet with money
> >you (as a trader with the proper "gimmie" subconscious) will take the
> >wallet grab the cash and maybe put the wallet in a mailbox. That's just
> >the way it is. That is why so many "brilliant" traders' develop and
> >sell systems. When they try to trade they invariably screw-up and have
> >net losers over time. They would rather give up the "wallet" and say
> >"here you dropped this". when they "drop it" on the trading floor...you
> >MUST be willing to take it.
> >
> >How many times have you come off a losing trade that was "set up so
> >perfect" and said "this can't be", "I don't believe it"!!! Go ahead and
> >call me a fool...
> >that's why it's 90/10 and not 60/40...
> >
> >--- Norman Phair <ericrogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> I have heard figures as high as 90% of the people
> >> that do day trading
> >> fail. No work, no reward.
> >>
> >> Norman E,
> >>
> >> > "Peter M. Beckwith" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Great post, Ira.
> >> >
> >> > Not only are there more on-line trading commercials
> >> than beer and auto
> >> > commercials, but the content and substance of these
> >> commercials is
> >> > completely off-line. The firms that sponsor these
> >> commercials hire
> >> > teams of lawyers to settle suitability of
> >> investment lawsuits and
> >> > arbitration suits all them time from people who
> >> lost their shirts(not
> >> > to mention their homes) after daytrading on the
> >> internet for a couple
> >> > of months. You would think that after all of the
> >> horror stories out
> >> > there about people who didn't understand what
> >> margin was or that if
> >> > the stock goes against you x percent you have to
> >> meet the cash
> >> > requirement, the firms themselves would take a more
> >> responsible
> >> > stance. Instead, most of us who keep CNBC on in
> >> the background have
> >> > to watch an Ameritrade commercial about a mom and
> >> housewive who can
> >> > take the kids to school and throw some money in a
> >> biotech company to
> >> > the tune of $1700/day or the guy who owns his own
> >> island, etc...
> >> >
> >> > I don't know what we are going to see with this
> >> market, but one day(I
> >> > hope) we can look back and just laugh at how absurd
> >> those commercials
> >> > really were. I am hoping it is sooner rather than
> >> later and then
> >> > maybe, just maybe the public will understand that
> >> trading is a
> >> > profession, not a hobby that you take up in your
> >> spare time...
> >> >
> >> > Pete Beckwith
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >===
> >Regards,
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >The Best Global Telecom Price$
> >Guaranteed...
> >http://LD.net/?garywgray
> >_________________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
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