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Peter G wrote:
> RTs:
>
> I just penned a quick note to John Boggio about the RTs focus, which is the
> reason I am starting this topic.
>
> Can people share their advice for beginning traders. I will quote from my
> earlier post:
>
> >The things I wish I'd known at the beginning were:
>
> >A: the "classic texts" (Murphy, Edwards & Magee etc.)
> >B: capitalization
> >C: risk management
> >D: "don't quit your day job"
> >E: psychology
> >
> >I was lucky enough to find an honest and supportive broker.
> >
> >I found it an important fact that large funds, big traders and small
> traders all >use different methodologies. They can all be successful.
> Discretionary intraday >swing trading, well capitalized mechnical trading,
> "tape-reading" (i.e. Bill) etc. >etc.
> >
> >I think a set of E.O.D. charts and some good books that you study in the
> evening >after work are probably the most cost effective and sensible tools
> to use until >you become profitable. Trendlines, 1-2-3 bottoms and patience...
> >
> >The most daunting aspect of daytrading, whether using R-Mesa or Bill's
> >approach, is that it's a full time endeavour. You cannot work another job.
> Any >beginner who tries to go full time.. well, another futures casualty is
> likely. >Believe me, I know from experience - as some RTs may remember.
> >
> >PG
>
> Here too, is Essan Soobratty's post from 7/16/98. He's a full-time trader
> who worked for institutions and now trades privately. He owns his cars, his
> house and supports his wife and himself. It's called:
>
> '"Learning how to trade and paying people to divulge their "knowhow"'
>
> It amazes me how many people once they have "decided" that they want to
> trade will then fork out many $$ in an attempt to learn various
> techniques.
>
> Some food for thought: Take a step back and look around you. All the
> successful people in all avenues of business per se, did they pay
> someone to teach them? Usually the answer is no.
NW: Here is where I must strongly disagree. Let's consider substracting everyone
with any type of business degree or eductation, anyone who bought a successful
franchise such as McDonald's etc.
Now, how many successful business people have you excluded from your count? If
you were correct, no one would bother paying big bucks to get an MBA or Harvard
business degree, let alone six figures or more for a franchise. Apparnetly you
don't believe it either, because further in your exposition you tell how you
benefited from having had a mentor
>
>
> As with all walks of business the only way to learn is to:
> (1) do it with a make or break attitude,
> (2) go work with someone or a group of people for an extended period of
> time, watching, learning and doing before going out on your own.
>
> You cannot pay $$$, spend one week looking over the shoulder of a
> "master trader", read some material and then go out on your own - it
> does not work that way!! Its not that easy!! Same with the homestudy
> trading courses. The best case scenario is that you come away "too
> confident" without the necessary experience and heartache that must be
> experienced before you can trade with confidence. What makes you think
> that you can let someone else endure the years or hardwork, perspiration
> and sickly feeling at the bottom of their stomache.The sleepless
> nights. The loss of appetite. The feeling of having failed.... pay
> them a few $$ and expect to buy the end result of their hardwork and
> think you can make it work for you. It doesn't work that way dude! If
> you want the results you must pay the price and the cost is not just
> measured in $$ terms. If you really must learn from someone else (as I
> did) then go work for them for a few years. Thats the only way. I am
> sorry if I have burst someone's bubble but thats the cold hard truth.
> Sure there are exceptions. There are people who can take short cuts and
> succeed, but they are exceptions and are far and few between.
>
> So if you are serious about trading and are commited at making a living
> out of it and are still young. Go work for a bank or other institution
> that has a trading desk. Or if you have the capital, and I am not
> talking about $5,000 to spare, put aside the books, magazine and
> courses, formulate some ideas of your own and trade the hell out it to
> see what happens.
>
> I remember when then head of a desk I used to work for decided that he
> wanted to break into the Italian swaps market in the early 90's when it
> was just beginning. Do you think he rushed out to buy the latest copy
> of ABC magazine or the lastest book from Joe Bloggs or maybe he surfed
> the web looking for a guru to teach him the art? No. He said, lets
> risk $xx, take a few positions and see what happens. We lost big time
> for the first couple of months until we figured out what we were doing
> wrong. Then we started making.
NW: Hey, no need for research. Just just get control of other people's money and
experiement until you
find out what works. After you find something that makes money using other
people's money,
then you can open you own account and make a little on the side. Right? kewl!
NW: So in conclusion, if we are to follow what you have said, no need for any
education, just go work for some financial group where you can experiment trading
their money until you find something that makes money and then you can quit and
go on your own. Maybe that explains the current internet stock bubble? All those
uneducated wannabe traders experiementing with other peoples money?
Gee, if I had only known how easy it could have been when I started. And here I
have been trying to trade my capital for the past 27 years. How stupid and silly
could I be? Thanks for the lesson..
Oooops! I didn't mean to make it sound like anything to do with education, we
wouldn't want that.
Enlightenedly but uneducatedly,
Norman
>
>
> As long as your are disciplined and know when to admit you are wrong and
> have the guts to jump right back on top of the horse then you'll do just
> fine.
>
> When I started trading for myself in addition to working full time I
> remember my first trade. I studied the Euro$ in such fine detail (in
> the early 90's euro's used to move a lot more than they do now!).
> Looked at so many indicators. Result. Confused. They guy I sat next
> to saw what I was doing as I was using the desks bloomberg terminal.
> Over a couple of beers at lunch he made me realise that I didn't do that
> kind of analysis when trading the banks money and I was doing okay. Why
> then should trading my own cash require a different approach. That
> evening I pulled up a chart of just the euro$ without any indicators and
> sure enough prices were heading up bigtime. I bought a couple of
> contracts. Prices went down the next day. I panicked. Sold. Prices
> continued down. Went short 3 contracts. Weak ecomonic fig. Prices
> started going back up again. Reversed and went long. I held that
> position for many months and made some good cash.
>
> Don't get so worked up about learning the new fad or secret approach to
> markets. Relax. Prices can either go up or go down or maybe stay the
> same. I bet when you play poker and you have a couple of Cohiba's in
> your pocket to help digest a good meal you are relaxed. Why not as
> relaxed when trading. What's the difference.
>
> Trading is as difficult as you want it to be.
>
> E.
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