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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hi All:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I've been using LeoWeb and putting up with the
headaches well known</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>to us all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I've heard good comments re: PMB's system, but
my reservation about this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>is the time it takes for a web page to
download. I trade the S&P and need</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>to enter orders very quickly--I like to put in
my entry order and the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>protective stop at the same time. Waiting
for the new page to download</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT size=2>when a trade isn't working
sounds expensive to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I'd like to hear from you PMB users if web page
download time is a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>problem and if not what kind of connection you
have. I use a 56k</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>modem but almost never get better than a 28.8
connection.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Has anyone used FTG? I have their software
and it looks very good--but</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>no one seems to be a customer. Is there a
reason for this?? They</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT size=2>seem to be a reputable
outfit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Reply privately or to the group in
general.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Good trading to all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Josh Taifer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2><A
href="mailto:taifer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>taifer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Nov 26 01:23:10 1998
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:51:09 -0800
Reply-To: "Steven Buss" <sbuss@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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From: "Steven Buss" <sbuss@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Day Trading aspects
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Alan,
I think your message below articulates the issue more clearly than anything
else I've seen including Douglas. I'm saving the message off.
Thanks.
Steven Buss
sbuss@xxxxxxxxxxx
Walnut Creek, CA, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: alan myers <a.myers@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Day Trading aspects
>[Sorry if this already appeared - I had no indication that it did]
>
>Steven Buss wrote:
>
>> - It seems to me that there is a set of lessons that constitute the
>> minimum set of lessons that one must learn to trade successfully. It
>> appears that these lessons can be (and are) succintly summarized in many
>> different places. And there are books and articles that contain these
>> lessons stated in different ways. But it's not enough to memorize the
>> phrases that encapsulate these lessons. The lessons must be internalized
>> and this takes time.
>
>Editor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> A semi-retired (real) brain surgeron friend of mine recently commented.
>> Geeeee, I thought brain surgery was difficult, (pause)
>> until I tried (intraday) trading the S&P.
>>
>> Please consider that when you day trade,
>> you are competing against the best traders in the world.
>
>First, I think that Peter G and Steven Buss display a lot of courage to
>come forward with a story that I'm sure is quite common. Everyone likes
>to crow about their successes. What is more often the case is things
>NOT going according to the plan.
>
>The above quotes from previous posts on this thread illustrate one point
>to me. It says a lot about why trading is so difficult to learn.
>
>I don't agree that the problem is that you are competing against the
>best traders in the world. If you read "Market Wizards" by Jack
>Schwager, you'll see that the world's best traders are wrong at least as
>often as they are right. From a competitive point of view, that is all
>of the opportunity that you'll ever need to compete successfully. I
>think that the secret to success is in *you*.
>
>I think that Steven is right about trading lessons being available
>everywhere you turn and that in order to become successful, you need to
>internalize these lessons. About the only way to do that is to actually
>trade. Expect the internalization process to take a long time. It may
>not, but if it doesn't, it's a bonus and not to be expected. You'll
>have to be persistent. If you are a slow learner like me, you'll have
>to be that much more persistent.
>
>The brain surgeon turned daytrader is actually at a disadvantage in
>starting out from the way I see it. I think that in order to succeed,
>you first have to 'unlearn' the patterns that have made you successful
>in other pursuits. This isn't something that you are going to be able
>to do overnight, or by simply purchasing a great system.
>
>Throughout one's life, you are called upon to form an opinion. It can
>be as simple as a friend asking "what do you think of this Clinton mess"
>or a neurosurgeon colleague asking you for an opinion about a particular
>technique in a difficult case. The value of an opinion is determined by
>the amount of knowledge and wisdom behind it. People's lives often
>depend on an opinion being correct, especially in neurosurgery. Therein
>lies the disadvantage for the neurosurgeon. The more knowledge and
>experience you have, the more likely you are to have an opinion. Trial
>and error over time have reinforced the neurosurgeon's reliance on his
>or her opinion. The more often your opinion is correct, the more likely
>you are to succeed in almost anything.
>
>Experience, knowledge, wisdom all contribute to opinions, which in turn
>contribute to success in almost everything except trading because they
>allow you to anticipate. If you can anticipate, you can act in advance
>of an occurance and either win more or lose less. That is what we
>strive for. Success is generally in the anticipation of an outcome,
>whether it's sports, neurosugery or anything else.
>
>I'm sure that you've heard it before that having an opinion in trading
>will kill you. It's true. The markets are unpredictable. Opinions get
>in the way. Neurosurgery, though not totally predictable, is a lot more
>certain in it's outcomes than the market. Anyone that says they can
>predict the markets with certainty is not to be believed.
>
>To be a successful trader, you have to learn to successfully REACT. To
>*not* anticipate. This goes against all of your training, all your
>learning, and most impostantly, all of the positive reinforcement you
>have received. You have to learn to *not* develop an opinion, but let
>the market tell you where it is going to go. You have to take a
>position and develop an action plan with the underlying assumption that
>you will most likely be wrong.
>
>The reason that it takes so long to learn to trade effectively and takes
>so long to internalize successful trading practices is that most of what
>you have learned has to be unlearned. That's why the surgeon is at a
>disadvantage. He/she has much more than average to 'unlearn'. Also,
>what they've learned has been reinforced over and over and that makes it
>much more difficult.
>
>Once you learn to react and let the market guide you, you are on your
>way. That means not having an opinion, not having an ego, not having
>expectations that this particular trade and any other trade will be a
>winner. You must be able to not just accept losses, but to expect them.
>If you have control issues in you psyche, you will have something extra
>to overcome and you'll experience more than the normal amount of
>frustration in learning to trade.
>
>Successful trading is being able to concentrate on damage control -
>first and foremost. Preservation of capital. Expect to be wrong and
>have an action plan that saves you if that is the case. Of course you
>wil be right at times. If you weren't, why bother. You'll never be
>right, though, if you aren't there trading. You'll never be there
>trading if you have no capital. You won't have capital unless you can
>successfully manage losses.
>
>I hope that my neurosurgeon, if I ever need brain surgery, doesn't think
>like a successful trader.
>
>~Alan
>
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