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Hi All
Below is a chat with Peter which may be of some
interest.
regards
ray
R Barros
101/25 Market Street
Sydney NSW 2000
Australia
Voice: 61 2 92673470
Fax: 61 2 92673478
E-Mail: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----------
> From: Peter Timaratz <timaratz@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: ramon <rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Discretion vs Mechanical
> Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 4:26 AM
>
> Hi Ramon,
>
> You can certainly post this to RT. I meant it to go to the list, but I
> appreciate you asking.
>
> I think that this issue of discretionary vs mechanical is getting down to
> the realm of semantics. For you a myriad of ifs and buts puts this in the
> realm of subjectivity. For me as a computer programmer, a lot of ifs and
> buts are still rules. In the end, it really doesn't matter as long as
ones
> method works. But I do enjoy hearing how other traders think.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ramon <rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Peter Timaratz <timaratz@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Discretion vs Mechanical
>
>
> Hi Peter
>
> I don't disagree. And at times with a subjective trader
> you'll find more than rules.
>
> For me, at its core trading is a game of pattern recognition
> and subconscious awareness of repetitious price action that
> does not filter to the conscious mind. However this is a very
> different approach to the rule based stage.
>
> In the subjective phase, trading signals become contextual
> whereas in the rule based stage, trading signals are absolute.
> What do I mean by that?
>
> Well, let's say you have a buy signal where the is a open and
> close are about the same and it must be a small range. In the
> case of both traders the trend has to be up. For the rule based
> trader, the signal is an absolute one whereas the subjective
> trader has a myriad of ifs and buts.
>
> For me it is this contextual nature that distinguishes the two types.
>
> regards
>
> ray
>
>
> PS if you have no objection I'd like to post this to the group
> as it may be beneficial to others. As your was a private post, I'd
> do it only with your consent.
>
> R Barros
> 101/25 Market Street
> Sydney NSW 2000
> Australia
>
> Voice: 61 2 92673470
> Fax: 61 2 92673478
> E-Mail: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------
> > From: Peter Timaratz <timaratz@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Discretion vs Mechanical
> > Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 12:42 AM
> >
> > Hi Ramon,
> >
> > My view on this is that your 'subjective' trader learns more about
> trading
> > and comes up with mores rules that may sometimes override some of his
> > existing rules. The inuitive trader has internalized the rules so that
he
> > can act without consciously thinking about them. But the rules are
still
> > there.
> >
> > In Sept 95 TASC Robert Krausz said: "I've found that when I speak to
> people
> > who say they aren't mechanical traders, and certainly when I speak to
> them
> > under hypnosis, I've found that there are quite a few rules involved."
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ramon <rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 6:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: Discretion vs Mechanical
> >
> >
> > Hi Peter
> >
> > Mark Douglas' evolution of a trader fits in nicely here.
> >
> > "objective (mechanical) to subjective (discretionary) to
> > intuitive".
> >
> > A mechanical trader: rule (written) based - once the rules are set
> > up, you leave them in place for a set number of trades. In
> > addition, there is no variance from the rules allowed.
> >
> > A subjective trader: also rule (written) based but can "break" his
rules.
> > In my experience, these rules are broken in favour of exits
> > rather than entries.
> >
> > An intuitive trader: trades without rules and trusts that his
> > intuition will make the best judgement possible in
> > the circumstances.
> >
> > I agree with Gwenn that a novice trader's best start is
> > as a rule based trader irrespective of his personality. Subjective
> > trading requires at least modicum of knowing we can make money
> > as traders otherwise "intuition" is merely "into wishing". I won't
even
> > talk about the probability of a newbie succeeding if he moves
> > straight into the intuitive phase. Yet most of the ones I know of
> > start this way.
> >
> > For the record I missed the rule based stage. With benefit of
> > hindsight, I can say that for myself, I'd have been many $ better of
> > had I had not.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > ray
> >
> > R Barros
> > 101/25 Market Street
> > Sydney NSW 2000
> > Australia
> >
> > Voice: 61 2 92673470
> > Fax: 61 2 92673478
> > E-Mail: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Peter G <ktata@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Subject: GEN: Discretion vs Mechanical
> > > Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 7:59 AM
> > >
> > > RTs:
> > >
> > > I have been exclusively discretionary in both stock and futures.
> However,
> > > Gwenn Ael Gautier was a strong believer in E.O.D. mechanical systems
> for
> > > the first years of trading. We talked some before she left the forum.
> > > Anyway, any comments about DISCRETIONARY versus MECHANICAL trading?
> > >
> > > PG
> >
>
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