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<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New">how one can bbest trade commodities
using their</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New">corporation to trade in its account
and maybe take dividends as needed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New">income in such a way as to not lose
the social security payments.????</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New"></FONT><SPAN
class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">---</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">It's entirely a corporation issue, unrelated to
commodities. Fundamentally, it's an issue of, "if the corporation
makes money, what's the most tax-advantageous way to get the money to
me?" My limited understanding of dividends is that they end up
getting taxed twice: once at the corporate level (because it's not salary,
which is a business expense), and once at the individual level (because you have
to declare them as income). If that understanding is correct, then this
seems like a horrible way to go. Can somebody tell me why any company
would do this? I must have it wrong somewhere...</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">Ultimately, there's no really good way to "hide
income" without going the overt fraud route. Not that I've found,
anyway. The best part of the corporation for me is that I get to declare
as business expenses a lot of things that I would otherwise have to pay for
individually (e.g. cell phone, cable line, Internet connection, etc.).
This allows me to pay for those things at a discount (because it's pre-tax
money), but the money is still going out the door.
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">And yes, with a corporation you can get medical and dental
coverage at group rates (though sometimes this requires two or more employees),
DCAP and HCAP, you can set up a SEP or SIMPLE and dump all kinds of money into
it for retirement, have Christmas parties and other reasonable de minimis
fringes, that kind of thing. The trick is to teach yourself to like stuff
that your company needs. Fall in love with office supplies, and you can
indulge your passion at the company's expense. :-) Just make sure
that all benefits and fringes, even the little ones, are available to all
employees. If your brother Morty is part of the company and you don't take
him with you for the First Friday pizza bashes, you're in a heap of trouble if
Morty gets mad and turns you in to the IRS. Gotta be legitimate; fraud =
bad.</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">I know it wasn't asked, but it's commonly assumed that
liability is also limited if you trade as a corporation: You trade futures
as a corp, and if your account gets waxed big time you can just walk away
without personal consequence because the corporation is the one in
trouble. Not so! Every FCM I've seen requires that you personally
guarantee the performance of the corp with your own assets... specifically
because it would be too easy to walk away. So much for the corporate
veil. If I ever meet up with an FCM that doesn't require such an
agreement, I'd personally run like hell the other way; they're going to wind up
dead on a street corner one day, and I wouldn't want my money under their
control.</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">Well, except that everybody who trades futures is a
winner. Right? Uh... right? :-)</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">Sticks</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT color=#000000 face="" size=2><FONT
face="Courier New"></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=540011504-17061998><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=2><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Courier New">--<BR>Troutman, Defender of
Sticks
troutman@xxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>
(aka)
<A href="http://www.teleport.com/~troutman";
target=_blank>http://www.teleport.com/~troutman</A><BR>Jonathan Matte,
President
No banner ads, no cookies,<BR>Defender Capital Management,
Inc.
no sekrit sniffers!<BR>Introducing Broker, Commodity Trading
Advisor</FONT></FONT><FONT face="Courier New"> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Tue Jun 16 22:23:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:02:36 -0400
Reply-To: detomps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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From: Donald Thompson <detomps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: FUT: Texas corn/cotton
References: <35873C2F.45CB9A7D@xxxxxxxx>
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Joe Frabosilio wrote:
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> I received this info. on the 10 o'clock local news here in Dallas/Fort
> Worth. If it doesn't rain soon, the corn and cotton crops will not be
> good here. Est. lost is about 1 billion for farmers. The report came
> from I believe williamson county Texas.
>
> I don't trade these markets, just passing along I believe important
> info.
>
> Joe Frabosilio
I believe that is one of the reasons cotton is trading higher is the
draught in Texas. Doesn't seem to have affected corn futures yet.
Don
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