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Bent,
I'm considering making a phone call to the powers to be, faxing some of
these post to find out if maybe an investigation is warrented..and whether
this practice is possibly illegal, unethical, and down right
unprofessional.
| Hey, this is the 90's the "no work", "and pay" era. Unfortunately,
| they(the order takers) do "have you" so to speak. The whole business side
| of what Tim said is not right and may even be illegal if they decide to
get
| even with you.
|=================================
| So Mark I agree with you, but beware. I guess that we need to tip those
| guys like they do the dealers in Vegas.
I have a tip for you....if your broker balks at the number of C/R orders
you make, and suggests in any way you will be black balled, and given bad
fills, delays your orders, there are rules for the exchanges as to the time
they have to execute an order, including fast market conditions, report
them to the exchange and FIRE them immediately, change brokers at
once...The power we have is to withdraw our business from the wolves, don't
give them any prey. Let them starve. I will not think twice about moving
my account to a different broker, have done it more an once.
And as for tips, I pay my broker by my loyalty when he is doing a good job
and I refer others to them, and if in the event there is a mistake then I
consider how I have been served...when it comes to maybe taking a hit on a
few ticks for a bad fill, since I got the edge in a market order the last
2-3 trades. For those who don't know what the "edge" is...there is bid and
offer, this is the open out cry method. So if I go to the market to let's
say buy "bid" a future there has to be the other side, someone to sell it,
the "offer". Well I'm not the only one attempting to buy. The brokers job
is to attempt to get you the price you wish to pay...so now you want to buy
one June bond @ 120-03 and it is trading 03 bid, 04 offer. Now unless
someone is willing to accept your bid @03, that means to sell to you, you
wont get filled until 03 becomes the offer...which means the market has to
move down, or someone lowers their offer to 03, which brings up the issue
of C/R orders. If no one wants to sell @03 and the market moves up to 04
bid 05 offer, and I want in I call my broker and tell him to C/R order to
buy @03 and replace with bid 04, no one wants to sell @04 and the market
moves up to 05-06 another C/R and possibly go to a market order where the
broker will buy the current offer, and you are in. Remember it's your
account and $$$ not the brokers.
I'm sure I'm not the best at explaining this. When some says that they got
the "edge" it means they bought where all the others are buying...whereas
to give up the edge you buy the "offer", you buy at a higher price. Now
for some floor brokers, this is where they make extra $$$. You might be
paying low commissions but they are making up the difference in the spread,
the difference between the bid and offer and usually at both ends of your
trade. In the bonds two ticks equals $62.50, and if you were the broker
and you picked up 62.50 with every order you did during the trading
day...you do the math. So you think you are paying let say $15-20 RT, and
you give up the edge in every trade add $62.50 to your commission bill,
where as if you get the edge then that is $62.50 in your account, for each
contract, for the bonds. Just think if you trade three lots or cars
(trader terms for future contracts), lets see that's $187.50 for Mr.
Floor Broker, each RT trade, and personally know of trader who make 3-8
trade a day, trading three lots.
This is all I have to say on this matter. It's a free country...and it's
your choice to listen to someone who, you will not get Xmas cards from
years after you have either lost your $$$ or stopped trading...It's a
business not personal, and Tim's job is, yes to provide a service and get
paid....its just that simple.
Thanks for being an intelligent trader,
Mark Seflin
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