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from Joe Bristor:
OK folks, this is how Dave responds to complainers. Sound familiar? Instead
of making good on his promises, like an honest vendor would do, Dave
continues to threaten, intimidate, and falsely accuse. Dave is spending all
his time incorporating when he ought to be trying to settle honorably. Have
you noticed he's still selling the RS video course thru his website?
Unbelievable. He says there's only a couple who haven't signed on his latest
proposal. That's not true. Why am I getting all these e-mails from others
who got duped by Dave just like me and want to get their money back? There's
more of you, I'm sure. Even if you signed, it's a meaningless contract; the
courts will throw it out. You know that. If your on the sidelines, show
some courage. Stand up for what's right. Do you want to let this guy slide?
Don't you know he'll continue selling another 100 and then another... Can
you live with that?
We've got enough names now, don't need to get greedy but I'm sure there's
more of you who want your money back. You're not alone. I you felt you
signed any of his contracts through coersion, stating that you were the only
complainer, get real, you weren't. Tell him to rip it, go get a loan and pay
you. Beteer yet, join us and we'll stop him altogether. Like Dave says, all
aboard. He never dreamed his 'good' name would be questioned.
I'm getting lots of e-mail from people who say they're sorry we're having
these problems and wish us the best. They all say the same thing: I bot this
or that from Dave a few years ago and it didn't work. When I called Dave, he
basically ignored me until I gave up. Well, this time we're not gonna leave
him alone until he gives up.
I must say in Dave's defense, apparently his newsletter is full of good
stuff. I don't know, but that's what I hear. There've been some good e-mail
comments mostly along the lines: "I like CTCNews if Dave would just stay out
of it." I don't see why you people don't speak your mind right here, on RT
or on other similar forum, where the vendor is not apt to take advantage of
you and your voluntary contributions by using his "privileged position as
editor" (solicitation pg.3) to sell YOUR ideas for a profit. If you don't
believe me, just read the mission statement for Dave's newsletter vs that of
say Club3000s. Or call the real RS in Houston and see if he ever got
anything from Dave's RS Video course besides a bunch of legal bills and a
long uphill battle clearing his name. (note: I have no affiliation with the
real RS).
Don't be misled, Dave's got too much at stake here - his image is all he's
got - He may even have money; at least he wants us to believe that; he's in
one of the highest rent districts in Scottsdale. And you helped pay for it.
Can you live with that?
Get in touch with me or file yourself. Don't miss this ship. I'll be giving
Eddie the instructions.
All respondents comments will be held in the strictest confidence. Together
we will succeed.
If you were happy with Dave's video please let me know. I'll apologize to
you for sure. So far, I haven't met any but I haven't asked either. So let
me know.
Everybody is asking me what to do next. Here it is: (mind you I'm not the
attorney, just following instructions)
-If you haven't returned the course materials do that first, asking for a
full refund. Be sure to have a notary inspect the contents attesting to
their being in good condition. Dave will try to claim they weren't. Keep a
copy of the notary.
-Get in touch with me so we'll know you're intent.
-Document your complaint. Sit down and organize every aspect of your
dissatisfaction,
date, arguement, supporting info.,page numbers, etc.
I'll be posting mine online at a location to be disclosed to those
participating. It's quite involved. Yours should be your own thoughts. Once
you've done that, everything else is downhill. I'll keep you posted.
Get in touch with me through my e-mail: joeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Expect to hear from you soon.
Here was Dave's latest e-mail to me:
At 03:53 PM 7/2/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Joe Bristor S.S.# 458-82-0043 D.O.B. 02-21-56 July 2 1997
>
>Dear Joe:
>
>This is about our communications in which you ask for a full cash refund
>and have ignored our earlier voluntary offers for either 100% MCC, or a
>lump-sum of ½ cash and a (MCC) Merchandise Credit Certificate for 50%.
>
>You said or have already done some vindictive things, such as a written
>complaint with the FTC, and saying unless your demand is met you will
>file more formal complaints and cause all kinds of trouble. Welcome
>aboard! Several people have already done that and this is one of the
>main reasons Commodity Traders Club had to stop its operations, had
>financial problems, did not have the cash to pay you under the
>money-back guaranty offer, and had to sell the CTCN newsletter, etc.
>
>Like we said in our 9-page letter of April, several mean-spirited and
>vindictive people already filed complaints with every agency you can
>imagine. In fact, that letter listed them all. How is your latest
>threat to complain going to hurt us when in fact all those complaints
>have ALREADY been filed?
>
>You are mad because CTC did not have the money to pay you 100% cash and
>said there was perhaps some type of fraud involved and dishonesty, etc.
>You know it’s simply not true. In fact, you have done some negative
>things, such as at one time wanting a very early refund even though you
>signed a 1-year contract agreeing to wait one-year for any refund.
>
>You then caused lots of trouble by making all kinds of threats and
>saying extremely nasty and false things in writing. In fact, several
>others also said these type of things but yours was perhaps the nastiest
>and most insulting of them all. They then caused lots of problems even
>BEFORE the 1-yr. time contractual time period which resulted in CTC not
>being able to pay-out under the guarantees. By the way, we reserve the
>right to refer your past threats and false statements to the District
>Attorney in your area as it was very blatant extortion and blackmail,
>both felonies.
>
>A few other mean-spirited people have also threatened to turn me over to
>the IRS and other places, including the FTC, which you have already done
>last year. You have threatened me with lots of nasty things in
>writing! May I remind you that CTC has everyone’s social security
>number, drivers license information, and other personal identification
>and we may end up turning all the mean-spirited people over to the IRS
>also. By the way, these threats are actually extortion and blackmail
>threats, both felonies in all states. We are seriously thinking about
>referring people who have said these things over to the District
>Attorneys in their areas.
>
>This is the last time we will repeat all this to you. We are weary of
>repeating it. CTC, Inc. simply does not have money to pay anyone
>anything at all, and has no current income since its products are now
>owned by a different corporation. The other corporation (Webtrading
>Co., Inc.) is worried people may get all those mean-spirited and mostly
>unjustified and untrue complaints already filed (or possible future
>complaints) against the name Commodity Traders Club Inc. confused with
>the Webtrading Product Name of Commodity Traders Club NEWS. It’s also
>worried about protecting the good name and goodwill of Dave Green, etc.
>Therefore, it is trying to settle these refund requests the best way it
>can on a totally voluntary basis. It does not have to this but is doing
>it for the goodwill but is not in any way liable.
>
>We are getting a bank loan to make pay-outs under the guaranty. The
>loan will allow for a lump sump payment, not installments. You have
>ignored our prior (already sweetened) offer for a 50% refund and 50%
>Merchandise Credit Certificate. There is a limit to how much the pot
>can be sweetened, since it’s all voluntary on our part. By the way,
>almost everyone has now returned the latest Agreement for 50% cash and
>50% Merchandise Credit Certificate.
>
>At one time I was thinking perhaps there is a way to give you even more
>than 50-50. However, after thinking it over and discussing it with a
>legal council there is really NO WAY we can offer anyone (including you)
>more than 50% (cash) at this time since so many have ALREADY ACCEPTED
>the "50-50 Offer". If we gave someone more than 50-50 can you imagine
>how mad they would be because they already took the 50-50 offer and we
>gave more than 50-50 to another!!!! Word this happened would quickly
>spread and after a while everyone who took the 50-50 offer would be
>violating the new Agreement and threatening us as before. Please
>understand we can not allow this to happen!
>
>In fact, a lot of the 50-50 signed settlements arrived here during the
>past few days. This is what made us realize we would be in even MORE
>trouble if we discriminated against others by favoring you or someone
>else over the vast majority. Please understand this predicament we are
>in. We have to treat everyone fairly and equally. If we give you more
>than the others they would have strong grounds to renege and violate
>their signed Settlement Agreements which would put us back to square
>one. Not only would we have people reneging on the Agreement and filing
>complaints or causing trouble, we would also be out lots of money
>representing the 50% we would have already paid them. I apologize to you
>if you thought you could somehow get more than the 50-50 offer but all
>this was not immediately apparent or obvious until now.
>
>However, we see nothing wrong with saying if Webtrading Co. does good
>financially we will be able to give you some more cash down the road.
>
>Even a few of the worst trouble makers agreed to the prior 50-50 offer.
>There are only a couple CTC clients left who have not yet accepted it.
>You are one of them. Unless basically everyone accepts our settlement
>offer NO ONE will get any money and CTC, Inc. will in all likelihood
>probably be forced to file for Protection From Creditors, as suggested
>by legal council. This is because we can’t leave a few bad apples in
>the basket to cause lots of trouble. Everyone must retract all
>complaints and agree to not complain in the future, as outlined in the
>Settlement Agreement and Contract.
>
>As late as six months ago CTC was still doing well and had funds
>available. Things change, as you know they do. At one time (long ago)
>we thought paying out in May or so would be no problem. However, in
>part due to all the mean-spirited people it then became a problem. At
>least you are commended in that you finally did wait the one-year but
>you were certainlly amazingly hostile earlier on. Several others became
>hostile a long time ago and filed complaints a long time prior to the
>1-yr. time period they had signed agreeing to.
>
>By you not accepting our latest offer you will be responsible (perhaps
>even solely responsible) for a number of other traders not getting any
>money at all. Do you want to be responsible to all those people getting
>nothing and could not put this matter to rest like they wanted to do?
>Therefore, we can sweeten the pot a little more.
>
>The good news is we promise if the new company Webtrading Co. does good
>financially, which is definitely anticipated, we will allow you to
>redeem the 50% MCC for cash down the road. This means you will get 50%
>cash now and 50% MCC which you can use to buy products, such as CTCN, or
>very possibly redeem it for cash once the new company is established and
>profitable.
>
>We are mailing a new Settlement Agreement for your signature. Please
>sign it and return it via fax or mail right away so we can get this
>matter settled and get on with our lives without all this worry and
>aggravation. If we don’t get this new Settlement Agreement back, signed
>and notarized, within 14-days we will assume you do not want to settle
>this matter and do not want the voluntary refund.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Dave Green, Pres. On behalf of Commodity Traders Club Inc.
>SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT & CONTRACT...I accept this offer for consideration
consisting of a Merchandise Credit Certificate of up to $877, which will
equal 100% of the purchase price...these numbers are assuming I paid $877
(excluding S&H or other items) for the Trading Course, and qualify for a
refund. The MCC is good towards purchase of any current or future products
of Webtrading Co. and non-redeemable for cash at this time. However, if
Webtrading Co. does "well" financially in the future it may offer MCC
redemption's for cash down the road, at the option of Webtrading Co. If the
MCC is redeemed the only cost in acquiring products will be S&H. If the
credit certificate is applied toward future subscriptions to CTCN newsletter
there will be no S&H as its sent postage paid. This is in full satisfaction
and settlement of the 12-month guaranty previously offered by Commodity
Traders Club Inc. involving the Real Success Educational Trading Course and
Video Tapes. I understand Webtrading Co. is not legally liable for debts of
CTC and is offering this to me on a not-held liable voluntary basis. I also
understand as outlined in my original Agreement & Contract, all materials,
including video tapes and manual were to be returned in "like new condition
at the end of one-year (no later than the end of month twelve) from purchase
date." For example, if you purchased the Trading Course on say March 8,
1996, it should have been returned on March 8, 1997 (one-year), or at the
very latest by the last day of March, 1997 (which was the end of the 12th
month). However, if a client agrees to accept a 100% Merchandise Credit
Certificate, we may be able to extend the time period somewhat for returns,
on an individual case basis. I also need to supply a copy of a Delivery
Receipt for proof of delivery if it was returned earlier. I also understand
and agree the (optional) Real Success/TS Software is non-returnable and not
guaranteed. It may be used by itself or with other methods and is not
dependent on Real Success Methodology.
>
>Furthermore, I agree to immediately withdraw and fully retract all
complaints and negative statements (if any already made, orally or written)
and not make them in the future, to any agency, organization, individual or
company, be it private or government; also to withdraw or retract (if any,
already made), (and not do it again) any negatively construed or negatively
sounding letters or articles written or published by any means or via any
type of media, including printed or computer means; and to permanently
cancel any litigation or collection efforts (if any). I also promise to
never in the future complain, reveal or publicize any information which may
be construed as negative and to do nothing which may harm the reputation and
good name of Dave Green, Commodity Traders Club, Commodity Traders Club News
(CTCN), and (or) Webtrading Co. I also agree to keep the specific terms of
this offer confidential and not reveal settlement amounts agreed to. I also
understand under the terms of the original 1996 Non-Disclosure Agreement I
am still liable for damages of $7,500 for each violation of the 1996
Agreement, as outlined therein. Since its difficult to determine actual
damages resulting from violations of this 1997 Agreement I agree to pay a
sum of $2,500 for each violation of this Agreement as liquidated damages to
Webtrading Co., CTC or Dave Green, for any violations of this Agreement. I
also agree any disputes or litigation under this Agreement and prior
Agreements shall be governed by Arizona Law (or Federal Law) in Arizona and
all actions and venue shall be at the Yavapai County Justice Court in
Yavapai County, Arizona, or at any location and venue selected by Webtrading
Co., CTC or Dave Green. This Agreement shall be in effect for 15-years from
today's date. This new offer expires and is void unless returned within
14-days and signed by both parties. I also understand unless there is full
participation in the settlement attempt this offer may not be counter-signed
and may be withdrawn, at the option of CTC, Webtrading or Dave Green. I
have read, understand and agree to all terms and conditions:
>
>Signature: ______________________________ Print Name:
____________________________
>Address: ________________________________________________________________
>Date Signed: ___________________ Soc. Sec. #
__________-________-___________
>Commodity Traders Club c/o Webtrading Co., 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. #477,
Scottsdale, AZ USA 85262.
>Fax: 602-595-1717 E-Mail: ctcn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date Offer Sent:
_______________
>
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