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Peter,
I can agree with most of what you say however have you bought or
leased something that works long term and works well? It doesn't
sound like it. You have good criteria. It has been some time since
this topic was discussed and it has been discussed for many years on
this list. Bottom line is why would anyone sell a good system. A
good system can make you very rich in a very short time. Or at least
that is my experience. So why would you sell it for a few hundred
dollars to a few people only to find everyone was selling at the same
time you were or buying at the same time? It makes no since. Every
really good trader I've known will not give you the system he is
trading. He is making so stinking much money he would never give it
up. I've built systems for years and nothing will trade like a good
discretionary trader can trade. He may change what he does over time
but he always make tons of money. 90 percent of the traders in
futures lose money. So 10 percent of the traders make it all. Get
your Excel loaded up and start computing how much money you will have
if you only double your money every week or two. Ok only every month.
Would you sell that? I wouldn't.
Jimmy
Tuesday, September 14, 2004, 5:33:55 PM, you wrote:
PZ> This is a massive topic...
PZ> Why do you guys want to re-invent the wheel?
PZ> There are people who are systems designers by profession.
PZ> While I admit much of what's out there is not good, there's also
PZ> a number of good things with broker statements to match system trades.
PZ> Good luck to you designing systems. While the end system might be simple,
PZ> the task of thinking it up is not easy at all. Believe me, cause I've been
PZ> at it for many years.
PZ> Personally, if your going to spend your hard earnt money, spend some more of
PZ> it and lease or buy something that works. Better to do this and give it to
PZ> "the market"
PZ> I think that's stats if 90% of people loose most of their initial capital in
PZ> 6 months trading futures.
PZ> In short, this is what I feel you should be looking for in system trading
PZ> 1) large sample of trades. At lease 1000 trades in sample size.
PZ> the more the better
PZ> 2) Long period of time in sample size. Preferably the full length of
PZ> whatever contract you trade
PZ> 3) Have sufficient capital. 2 or 3 times the max drawdown
PZ> 4) A profit factor of at least 1.5, preferable 2 or more ($win / $loss)
PZ> 5) A $return / max $drawdown of at least 10
PZ> Happy trading
PZ> ----- Original Message -----
PZ> From: "Justin Fanning" <Justin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
PZ> To: "Riley Robertson" <rileyrobertson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
PZ> Cc: <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
PZ> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:44 AM
PZ> Subject: Re: system trader
>>
>> Riley Robertson wrote:
>>
>> > Hi List & Justin:
>>
>> > When you suggest it is the System trader that can make a living,
>> > do you mean a trader who knows computer programming so well
>> > that he can write his own systems and use it?
>> > or a trader who is very disciplined and his attitude+trading habit is
>> very systematic?
>>
>> I consider anyone who operates by a set of *written* mechanical rules,
>> to be a
>> system trader. Some I have seen employ teams of guys working around the
>> clock,
>> more commonly now people are using computers.
>>
>> > If it is the former, does it mean all the discretionary traders are
>> losers?
>>
>> The consistent big winners (in my observations) were all mechanical
>> system traders,
>> discretionary traders can hit the odd big win, but (in my opinion) lack
>> consistency
>> and are long term losers.
>>
>> > If so, how can the discretionary traders pay someone to write the
>> programming for him
>> > without that programmer using the formula himself and trade with it?
>>
>> The standard legal framework of Non Disclosure Agreements (NDA's) plus
>> someone's
>> professional reputation is usually enough to keep most things secret.
>> Not to mention the
>> average man on the street known nothing of data feeds, brokers, exchange
>> rules, contract
>> specifications etc. Trading isn't exactly something you can get your
>> head around in 5 mins.
>>
>> The use of external programmers is something I would like to do more of
>> myself,
>> in fact I would like to sub-out my whole IT operation and concentrate
>> more on the
>> core trading.
>>
>> Often I find myself modifying my trading ideas to fit in with
PZ> TradeStation,
>> I have explored the path of professional programmers before and no doubt
>> will again.
>> The freedom to dictate exactly how you want the code to run, knowing it
>> won't be you
>> writing it is quite liberating for the mind!
>>
>> Having said all of this... I am constantly stunned by the simplicity of
>> trading systems
>> used by banks & other institutions, often as simple as a single moving
>> average.
>>
>>
>> > RR
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
Best regards,
Jimmy mailto:jhsnowden@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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