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Excuse my bad typing please :) Its after midnight...so I'm off to bed!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Pitt [mailto:apitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:21 AM
> To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: e-mini day trading systems
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
> > > If you do no nor ever have had a position at
> > Omega/Tradestation then
> > > yes there are plenty of systems that make money trading
> the eminis.
> >
> > I believe you, and I don't want to sound like I don't. However, my
> > hypothesis is that there's no proof. If I understand you correctly,
> > you're agreeing that there's no proof, but you are saying you can
> > personally testify that such systems exist. I just want to
> establish
> > the fact that there is no proof anyone is making money on
> eminis with
> > a 100% mechanical system. Does this make any sense? I know it's
> > weird, but maybe there's someone out there who understands
> > the point I'm trying to make.
>
> If you have PROVEd your hypothesis that there is no proof
> that any makes money on the em-min consistently then why do
> you trade it? Are you just a bored gambler who has time and
> money to flush down the toilet?
>
> And yes..you make perfect sense to me..and it explains why
> your not making money.
>
> >
> > > I would never buy a system from a vendor. I could never trade a
> > > system that didn't suit my trading beliefs. I figure
> nearly all of
> > > them are trash or will be soon anyway. Just my opinion.
> >
> > I share your opinion in general, but I think we have to acknowledge
> > systems like R-Mesa, and that the problem might be the
> eminis....not
> > necessarily the movement of the stock indexes. I'm just speculating
> > and seeking to expand my understanding on the subject. Your
> > revelations are helpful and I thank you for taking the time
> to respond
> > to each of my points as you have.
>
> If it's the e-mini..then why do you keep looking to beat a
> market you claim in unbeatable? Do you kow what they call
> people who keep doing the same thing hoping it will result in
> a differetn future outcome??
> >
> > > Ask yourself
> > > why would anyone sell a system. If they can't trade it
> > themselves why
> > > don't they hire a monkey to do it for them. They will
> make more in
> > > the market than they ever will selling systems.
> >
> > 100% agreement. Systems trading is highly-speculative, and I just
> > don't see any proof that anyone is doing it for real on the
> lower-risk
> > emini futures. I've seen no evidence or proof in 8 years,
> and I just
> > want to see if anyone else has reached some of the same
> conclusions I
> > have about the futility of trying to trade a single static system
> > short-term on the eminis.
>
> Ron, if you agree 100% why have you spent so much money on
> trading systems? Why have you gone to so much trouble to set
> up a website to monitor and trade them yourself?
> Are you a masochist perhaps?
>
> >
> > > So my BS is all opinion because I don't trade my own
> > systems. I'll be
> > > glad to send you a report on the one I'm working on but I
> > don't trade
> > > it so what value will it have?
> >
> > Agreed. I trade a system, but that doesn't mean I expect it to make
> > money. I HOPE it makes money, and I think there's a chance it will.
> > However, I'm going in with a preset stop-loss based on the max
> > drawdown. I've accepted the loss, and I plan to stick it
> out all the
> > way to max drawdown if necessary. I have decided that this type of
> > expectation is the most appropriate for ME. I understand
> that everyone
> > has different reasons/limits with what systems they trade.
>
> So you are a gambler....I strongly suggest you go and see
> Gamblers Anonymous...they Might b able to help you fro your
> addiction. Someone who places wagers on an uncertain outcome
> expcting to lose IS A GAMBLER.and has a serious problem.
>
>
> > > Better yet change your
> > > approach to the market and build your own system. One
> really smart
> > > guy posted to this list quite some time ago that you need to see
> > > something in the market that works then code it. Now that isn't
> > > exactly how he said it but it is close enough. Think about
> > that. They
> > > guy knows what he is talking about. Take any pattern
> that happens
> > > then code it up. If it doesn't work then figure out what the
> > > difference is between when it works and when it doesn't.
> Then code
> > > that in. The guy that builds a good system is the guy
> that can see
> > > what the market does and he can also figure out how to code
> > it. I'm
> > > al lousy coder but I can see the market pretty fair.
> >
> > I have thought about and tried this many times in my 8 years as an
> > Easylanguage programmer, and I think I understand the
> process you're
> > describing. However, what you just described can also sound like
> > curve-fitting. I believe that it's possible to make money
> consistently
> > with adaptive and/or evolving systems, but I don't consider these
> > "100% mechanical." I'm not talking about adaptive systems with my 3
> > hypotheses, I'm thinking more along the lines of "static" and
> > commercially-available (for sale) systems on vendor web sites.
>
> SUGGESTION: STOP trading your syems...and go and spend a year
> learning to read a chart... Learn to read and understand the
> market...until you do that , no system you test, analyse or
> trade will work for you... End of story.
>
> If you believe a model that uses some form of adaptive logic
> can't be mechanical after 8 years of research, then you need
> to step back and have a very serious look at your work and life Ron...
>
> > >
> > > Then the really big trick is if you have the system can you
> > actually
> > > follow it? Can you do what it tells you? That alone
> > probably takes
> > > more than half the traders that buy or build a system out
> > of the game.
> >
> > I totally agree and can speak from experience of having
> traded 6 emini
> > system for 6 months. Slippage and trader-errors is a
> serious problem,
> > and Tradestation 7-like automation is a powerful solution.
>
> If you believe slippage and errors are a serious problem in
> the e-mini then once again I STRONGLY suggest you completely
> reassess you life Ron. The E-mini is the most liquid market
> in the worl. Or close to it, and if after 8 years you havent
> learnt to place a simple Buy/Sell on stop order with the
> approriate stop..thenyou have serious problems and need to
> completely reassess your life.
>
> I'm not kidding...you can choose to stop now...or waste your
> whole life never finding what your looking for. Your mind set
> is wrong...your solutions are wrong..and your quest has taken
> the wrong rode....trust me...there isn't much I haven't seen
> in 20+ years... If you want perspective you need to step
> right away for a while.
>
> Regards,
> Adrian
>
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