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Bob said:
>Just because a tool can't be coded or mechanized does not mean it has no
>value in trading.
In this case, to a large extent, it CAN be coded and mechanized! I'm saying
the "tool" DOES have value.
I said:
>I take back what I originally said about the ticki being
>a waste of time and I want to thank everyone that brought
>it back to my attention. *****It is indeed a fine tool*****
I mean it! It's just there's a twist....
>I guess we are now entering the realm of discretionary versus systems...
I'm NOT making that arguement.
I'm a hybrid trader, somewhere between the two, but since I own
a computer, sometimes it's nice to test ideas.... You know, it's
like that old quote: "Don't cloud the issue with facts."
I guess we shouldn't get off topic and try to code trading ideas into
***Omega's EL*** on the ***Omega List***..... that would be a real tangent,
hunh?
BW
>From: "Bob Heisler" <Bheisler@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: "Bill Wynne" <tradewynne@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <softexcl@xxxxxxx>,
><mr_bond@xxxxxxxxx>, <ebonugli@xxxxxxxx>, <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>CC: <rfurse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: OddBall as a market timing tool
>Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:08:16 -0600
>
>Just because a tool can't be coded or mechanized does not mean it has no
>value in trading. Some things require an understanding beyond lines of
>code. I guess we are now entering the realm of discretionary versus
>systems
>trading, and that's a discussion I have no interest in pursuing.
>
>Bob
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Wynne" <tradewynne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <Bheisler@xxxxxxxxx>; <softexcl@xxxxxxx>; <mr_bond@xxxxxxxxx>;
><ebonugli@xxxxxxxx>; <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: <rfurse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:45 PM
>Subject: Re: OddBall as a market timing tool
>
>
> > >From: "Bob Heisler" <Bheisler@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > >I've been using Ticki for several years now and find it an invaluable
>tool
> > >for daytrading the indexes especially when combined with Premium and to
>a
> > >lesser extent Tick.
> >
> > >I'm not a systems person, but with what I know about Ticki I'm not sure
>how
> > >it could be used in any mechanical way.
> >
> > Once again I applied my humble coding skills and contrary personality
>traits
> > to the ticki....
> >
> > WARNING: code that follows is only for comparative purposes. Test it
> > yourself and see what you think. IMO I would not trade either system
>below,
> > however some might find value in the basic comparative info.
> >
> > I tested various time frames, but found 60 minute data the most
>revealing.
> > Data1 SPX, data2 Ticki, data3 Tick, data4 Prem.
> >
> > Fades ticki, tick, prem extremes:
> >
> > inputs: Y(22),X(500), Z(5);
> > If highest(h of data2,2) > Y
> > and Highest(h of data3,2) > X
> > and Highest(h of data4,2) >= highest(H of data4,Z)
> > Then sell;
> > If Lowest(l of data2,3) < -Y
> > and Lowest(L of data3,2) < -X
> > and Lowest(L of data4,2) <= Lowest(L of data4,Z)
> > Then buy;
> >
> > Flows with ticki, tick, prem extremes:
> >
> > inputs: Y(22),X(500), Z(5);
> > If highest(h of data2,2) > Y
> > and Highest(h of data3,2) > X
> > and Highest(h of data4,2) >= highest(H of data4,Z)
> > Then buy;
> > If Lowest(l of data2,3) < -Y
> > and Lowest(L of data3,2) < -X
> > and Lowest(L of data4,2) <= Lowest(L of data4,Z)
> > Then sell;
> >
> > FWIW, "fader" actually had a higher % of winners in my
> > short test while losing bigtime (66%, lost $271K+), while
> > the "flow" version won less often (59%) it made more (+$271K).
> >
> > I take back what I originally said about the ticki being
> > a waste of time and I want to thank everyone that brought
> > it back to my attention. It is indeed a fine tool.... ;-)
> >
> > BW
> >
> >
> >
> > WARNING: Trade at your own risk! Commodity trading can be risky and is
>not
> > appropriate for everyone! The information presented is for
> > informational purposes only. Investment in futures involves a high
>degree
>of
> > risk, your investment may fall as well as rise, you may lose all your
> > original investment and you may also have to pay more on the original
>amount
> > invested. Consult your broker or advisor prior to making any investment
> > decisions. Past or simulated performance is not a guide to future
> > performance.
> >
> > NO CLAIMS ARE MADE THAT THESE TRADES HAVE BEEN
> > OR ARE LIKELY TO BE PROFITABLE.
> >
> > NOTICE: This information is believed to be reliable, but is not
>guaranteed
> > as to its accuracy or completeness. This information is subject to
>change
> > without notice. Neither the information, nor any opinion expressed
>herein
> > constitutes a representation by Smart Trades Inc., or a solicitation for
>the
> > purchase or sale of any commodity futures, or options of any kind. Those
> > using the information herein for trading purposes are responsible for
>their
> > own actions and no claim is made that the recommendations will be
>profitable
> > or that they will not result in losses. Smart Trades Inc., its officers,
> > employees, or members of their families may have a position in the
>markets
> > contrary to the information contained herein.
> >
> > REQUIRED CFTC RISK DISCLAIMER: HYPOTHETICAL PERFORMANCE RESULTS HAVE
>MANY
> > INHERENT LIMITATIONS, SOME OF WHICH ARE DESCRIBED BELOW. NO
>REPRESENTATION
> > IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFITS OR
> > LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE SHOWN. IN FACT, THERE ARE FREQUENTLY SHARP
> > DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HYPOTHETICAL PERFORMANCE RESULTS AND THE ACTUAL
>RESULTS
> > SUBSEQUENTLY ACHIEVED BY ANY PARTICULAR TRADING PROGRAM. ONE OF THE
> > LIMITATIONS OF HYPOTHETICAL PERFORMANCE RESULTS IS THAT THEY ARE
>GENERALLY
> > PREPARED WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. IN ADDITION, HYPOTHETICAL
>TRADING
> > DOES NOT INVOLVE FINANCIAL RISK, AND NO HYPOTHETICAL TRADING RECORD CAN
> > COMPLETELY ACCOUNT FOR THE IMPACT OF FINANCIAL RISK IN ACTUAL TRADING,
>FOR
> > EXAMPLE, THE ABILITY TO WITHSTAND LOSSES OR TO ADHERE TO A PARTICULAR
> > TRADING PROGRAM IN SPITE OF TRADING LOSSES ARE MATERIAL POINTS WHICH CAN
> > ALSO ADVERSELY AFFECT ACTUAL TRADING RESULTS. THERE ARE NUMEROUS OTHER
> > FACTORS RELATED TO THE MARKETS IN GENERAL OR TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF
>ANY
> > SPECIFIC TRADING PROGRAM WHICH CANNOT BE FULLY ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE
> > PREPARATION OF HYPOTHETICAL PERFORMANCE RESULTS AND ALL OF WHICH CAN
> > ADVERSELY AFFECT ACTUAL TRADING RESULTS.
> >
> > © Smart Trades Inc. 2002. All rights reserved.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Bob Heisler" <Bheisler@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >To: "Bill Wynne" <tradewynne@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <softexcl@xxxxxxx>,
> > ><mr_bond@xxxxxxxxx>, <ebonugli@xxxxxxxx>, <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >CC: <rfurse@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Subject: Re: OddBall as a market timing tool
> > >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:55:22 -0600
> > >
> > >I've been using Ticki for several years now and find it an invaluable
>tool
> > >for daytrading the indexes especially when combined with Premium and to
>a
> > >lesser extent Tick. It's especially useful for trade management
>although
> > >it
> > >can also be involved in trade setups. Outlining all of the details on
>how
> > >to use it is beyond this email, but paying attention to extreme
>readings
> > >(+/- 22 or higher/lower) at S/R levels would prove a useful endeavor.
>And
> > >sometimes a reading of +/- 28 can occur at interesting times especially
>if
> > >Premium/Tick are saying the same thing. However, is you use Fibs or
>some
> > >other form of calculated S/R numbers then I doubt you'll find much use
>for
> > >Ticki. It works best with the market's S/R numbers. I also don't
>believe
> > >it would work very well if used for indications of the market being
> > >overbought/oversold, if there is such a thing.
> > >
> > >I'm not a systems person, but with what I know about Ticki I'm not sure
>how
> > >it could be used in any mechanical way. Plus the quality/frequency of
>the
> > >data varies widely between data vendors. It's an acquired taste for
>sure,
> > >and the only certainty about it that I know of, besides it always
>trades
> > >between +/- 30, is that it will take time to learn how to use it. But
>it's
> > >a very valuable tool if you do invest the time.
> > >
> > >Bob
>
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