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And you thought future pit locals ala the S+P were out to manipulate the
market and screw the paper. Sounds as if there's just as much if not more
manipulation in the stocks than futures. Guess again if you think electronic
trading is going to bring equitability for all participants. There will
always be those who have an unfair advantage. Electronic trading makes it
even eaiser to cheat because it's done in private with way less
accountability.
Markets are markets and people are people. You can't escape.
Just figure out in what position the pain doesn't hurt as much and it won't
be so bad. However, you still got to take it.
Brian.
-----Original Message-----
From: Felix TY [mailto:felixty@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 1998 11:05 PM
To: Gerrit.Jacobsen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Globex S&P and emini
Was a broker who traded at our electronic exchange, the following are really
true,
I think they are really important for electronic newbies.
Gerrit Jacobsen wrote:
> Even on systems where you can see the whole order book you cannot
effectively
> compete because the traders either do not give all information into the
system
> or they give wrong information into the system.Either way no one wants to
show
> his hand - who would ?
>
> Yes, unless they wanted you to ( for their own purposes)
> But even then he will try to have some private words with large traders.
Yes , this is also practice, so that nobody gets in the way when they do
their
thing.or there's going to be big problerm for them from even bigger boys who
are
not
participants.
> There is no way to find this out while this is happening.
Yes, it has to be planned by two or three private parties acting and
synchronizing andsynchronizing their postings.
> Of course I do not want to generalize and I believe that some markets
> like the DTB/Xetra are already pretty efficient but the methods stay
> the same. It is well known that the traders put fake orders into the
> market to cap or support positions. When the market gets there they
> just pull the order.
Our local term for this is "loading"., fake massive buying posted, then
when
thepublic saw this , the public will hit the sellers again and again , who
myteriously wouldn't go away,or has an almost unlimited supply, after these
sellers have their fill, they pull out the massive buying,
next step then dump down on the next two levels of buyers, making the first
buyers who buy up the ask threw up their positions creating a selling down
frenzy. by the longs, where
the conspirators buy back if they oversold (short) later or sometimes they
don't,
that is
if they have a really big sell order that day.. So their really objective is
to
sell to the suckers at the ask price. Its not as dangerous as you think,
they
have other terminals, who is on standby, to pull out those fake buys at the
press
of a key. (the professionals do it this way) These are actual practices,
having
seen them first hand again and again.
> Whatever system is out there. It is not in the interest of others to cut
you in
> on the deal.
Yes, again, your role (and the public) is only to provide their daily bread
and
butter.These are some of the methods developed and practiced by electronic
market traders in our market, the last two years. So far nobody has
complained,
because nothing is done illegally. The only risk is if some of the really
big
guys, who are not participantsof theirs suddenly hit these conspirators down
on
three fluctuations, then they are , in deep shit too! But this happens less
than
5 percent of the time. Knew one trader,( even a brokerage!!, too bad an
insider
really dump shares to them ), who tried to do this as an individual, he
became
bankrupt.
Doing this practice recquires big big balls too. Not for everyone, even with
big
capital.
New electronic traders will see these happening in their markets too, so be
careful and
remain faithful to your methologies and stop losses.
In electronic trading one should always play chicken, and build up your
positions, as they move your way or you will become mince meat by the pros.
This
is just one of the
techniques being done in electronic trading ,there are many more, and more
being
developed.
>
>
>
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