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This message is only to subscribers that enjoyed reading Bob Fulks, Mark Brown
& Rod Grisham messages of Jan 17 or 18; otherwise hit the delete key.
Bob Fulks wrote:
> Subj: Re: OMEGA bashing
> Date: 98-01-17 11:15:42 EST
> From: bfulks@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Bob Fulks)
> To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
>
> I have been trying to stay out of these discussions as they always seems to
> end up with "Omega bashing"
This type of reaction is extreme as software product go: there are few
products that are the basis of a livelihood. TS is one, for a mission critical
application. Therefore its defects are "life" threatening: for some traders it
is like if one ended up in the hospital with brain cancer, & the program that
controls the spot to where the gama radiation goes had a bug. These users have
been hurt, & they pain badly. they are not "run of the mill" complainers. When
Mark Brown complains (I personally didn't like his language a couple of years
back, but that is kind of besides the point), don't you (I don't mean just
you, but all of us) feel his pain? IMHO, whoever doesn't isn't human.
> and "flaming" for those who contribute, ...
I agree that is unfortunate
> recent posts caused me to bumble into the fray. This is a long "opinion
> piece" which has nothing to do with trading so if this topic doesn't
> interest you, please delete this message now. If you would like some
> insight into the process and problems of developing commercial software,
> read on.
<< SNIP ALMOST ALL THE REST FOR BREVITY>>
Bob:
I would like to commend you for having the motivation & stamina to write your
excellent discourse on the nature of the software business.
When I first got into a mailing list involving TS (after purchasing TS 2.01),
it was one sponsored by Omega Research on AOL several years ago (Omega forced
me to go that way, that is why I then subscribed to AOL to begin with!) I had
been learning EL & becoming familiar with TS which I had decided was going to
be a "sinne qua non" tool without which I wouldn't want to become a trader
(which I had just decided to become). That was going to be for my own
account, containing the majority of my assets.
Since in one of my "past lives" I was in the software business including
military mission critical applications, (& as a result of seeing people then
on the AOL list complaining about issues justified only if they had paid
$100,000 for their software), one of my earliest urges, was to start writing a
mail piece along the lines of yours. It never came to fruition because, while
I was working on it, I saw a "loud" message from Mark Brown blowing his stack
against Omega. I started thinking about the human drama behind Brown's &
others' messages. To cut a long story short, from wherever "I was coming",
the Omega product never came up to my specs to do the trading I had
envisioned. I am "still waiting", working on systems & reading every day all
the relevant-to-me messages on this "JIMOs (thank God!) List (& there are many
by excellent people, like you Bob), still not trading with TS, & a few $100 K
poorer due to overhead expenditures. Luckily I could afford it, but I am
getting panicky like many in the past have, in much shorter time. And that
makes one aggressive...
> This would cost 4 to 10 million dollars and so to break
> even, you would need to sell 2000 to 5000 copies at full price. The problem
> is that the market just isn't big enough to justify such an investment.
I agree with you (in a 1995 discussion on the AOL list my estimate was 10
million), but I wonder what anyone thinks now that Omega's investment bankers
saw to justify the raising of a multiple of that, for a minor portion of the
company: to do WHAT with that capital from the public when it wasn't worth for
Omega to invest that money?
> One thing that I cannot understand is how Omega can allow such an important
> and influential forum of its users, (this list), to have such a negative
> attitude about the company and the products, particularly, when it would
> take so little effort to keep us a lot happier. My previous company helped
> sponsor a users group and meetings of users. We would listen to and work on
> the top 10 or 20 features that the users, as a group, requested and agreed
> upon. Our management would stand up before the meetings and listen to
> customer's gripes and suggestions and at least tell the customers why we
> couldn't do things they wanted us to do. We found that if our customers
> understood the realities of our business, they became allies and helped in
> the overall effort.
In one my other lives I had also been a management consultant to top
executives of various size companies including a few Fortune 500. My
experience qualified me for the offer I made to Bill Cruz in an e-mail message
to his List on AOL: I was willing to advise him (for free) as to what to do to
turn his customers on his AOL List into an important resource/partner, instead
of into enemies that already was happening at that time. I NEVER GOT AN
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OR A REPLY OF ANY KIND EVER, even when Bill Cruz talked to me
on some other item important to Omega in the last year!
Bob, now that you have my input its hard to conclude anything else than HIGH
MANAGEMENT INCOMPETENCE, never mind SOFTWARE ....
Mark Brown wrote:
> Subj: TradeStation Repalcement Part Two
> Date: 98-01-18 11:10:24 EST
> From: MarkBrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Reply-to: ati@xxxxxxxxxx
> To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx (Omega-List), mitch.ackles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (
> Mitch Ackles), ati@xxxxxxxxxx (ATI-List), product.quality@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(
> product.quality), scherry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (scherry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>
> Omega promised a Windows version of System Writer Plus
> and collected money for that upgrade but did not deliver!
<<
SNIP THE REST OF THE VERY HIGH CONTENT VALUABLE HISTORY, that if supplemented
with
(a) the IPO prospectus of Omega Research, &
(b) the OMGA trading on NASDAQ over the past 3 months
would constitute a good case study for the Harvard Business School involving
IPO's, investment bankers, etc, as one wishes.
>>
Mark:
Thank you for your brief "juicy" history. I know it is just the "tip of the
iceberg". Just be aware that I am in "your corner", & I am looking forward for
good things to happen.
The best of luck to all of us.
> From version 2.0 the dreaded symbol universe has had
> wrong settings in it and many missing symbols. After much
> complaining through the years it has only gotten worst. The
> mere fact this one item has gone undetected and uncorrected
> is evidence that no one of any significance with Omega
> actually uses the program they sell.
When I was about 12 years old (many, many decades ago!), my father was already
concerned about getting me wise in the ways of the world & he told me a joke
whose details I forgot (may be someone out there heard also) but what I do
remember is that it involved trading of canned sardines. Somewhere along the
chain of traders involved, one decided to open a can to see how good the
sardines tasted. Well they stunk!, so this trader went back to the top trader
in the chain complaining about the stinky sardines. The response was: "You,
stupid Joe!, you are killing all the business for all of us traders: these
sardines are for trading, not for eating!" YOU STUPID JOE!, YOU HAVE SUNK THE
BUSINESS FOR ALL OF US: THESE SARDINES ARE FOR TRADING, NOT FOR EATING!
Mark, could it be that TS has a common ancestry to those sardines in the long
ago sardine joke?
Rodney Grisham wrote:
<<
Subj: Re: Let's put it to a vote
Date: 98-01-17 22:17:08 EST
From: grisham@xxxxxxxxxxx (J. Rodney Grisham)
Reply-to: grisham@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: Peter2150@xxxxxxx (Peter 2150)
CC: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Peter 2150 wrote:
> This was done by Phillip York well over a year ago when it mattered
> and given to Omega. At this point this is about as fruitful as
> taking a poll on the outcome of the 1986 election. ITS HISTORY.
I was about to say the same thing. But what I would like to
see is a point by point response from Omega to the issues
described by Phillip. Enough effort went into the creation
of that document that, as far as I am concerned, Omega owes
us a detailed response. At the time it was submitted, Omega
could have reasonably responded that they needed time to
schedule work on version 5. However, now, as "Peter 2150"
said it's history, so a response is in order.
Rod
>>
Rod,
I put hours on that report also, & I have been passed (pardon me) for a long
time at Omega's management from never replying publicly for an effort that
Omega could have never afforded,( with a value of upwards of $100,000 if they
had to pay for it) by the most technically capable users on the list. Omega
has demonstrated high know-how of alienating their most competent users. Dent
you see Rod? these users are in Omega's way: that is why we will never get a
response!
If anyone has any other valid theory, please expose it; or may be not! why
should we spend good time after bad time?
I thank you all for what you have taught me & for your dedication of
participating here, including JIMO.
-Saul
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