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Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to trade FUTURES?



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Dow has veen very trendy the past two years. I've alraady traded 
about 6 major trades this year. the prvious year around 8 all year 
long. The average trade was about 600 points long and short. That is 
about $3,000.00 per contract on the dow mini and $6,000.00 per 
contract on the Big Dow. Just multiply the profit with the amount of 
contracts and you can see it has been a very good year and a half.
KS.



--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v" <entinv@xxxx> wrote:
> KS,
> 
> As you mentioned good trend trades happen only several times a 
year.  How
> many trades a year
> do you make on average?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
>    Vladimir
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of formulaprimer
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:26 AM
>   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to trade 
FUTURES?
> 
> 
>   One more thing. I trade between 1-100 contracts sizes of the dow
>   mini's.  The maximum position one could hold on the minis before
>   having to declare is 2500 contracts or it could be doubled to 
5000
>   contracts I haven't checked recently. So it is pretty broad. I 
still
>   use the same money management plan.
>   KS.
>   example: with 1 lot I test the trend and will handle a $250.00 
loss.
>   With a major trend I will enter 100 lot and will suffer a 
$25,000.00
>   draw down with a profit to reward ratio of 3:1. I will never 
enter a
>   large position trade without a 3:1 risk to reward ratio. 
Basically
>   if i risk $25,000.00  I must return $75,000.00 in profit. Keep in
>   mind major trend trades happen a several times a year.
>   KS.
> 
> 
>   --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
>   <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
>   > The funds move the market and the commercials hedge the market.
>   The
>   > big money is made by the funds and they trade the Big Board. 
The
>   > mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading or
>   small
>   > lot traders getting overdone in a situation. Basically the Big
>   Board
>   > is a more technically sound chart. This is always the case.
>   > KS.
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
>   > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > KS, one more: Why not chart the minis? Why trade by the Big
>   > Contracts
>   > > and enter in the mini contracts?
>   > >
>   > > Thanks!
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
>   > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > I think the dow mini is $5 a point and and the full dow 
future
>   > > > contract is 10$ a point. That is what i go on.  1% of of my
>   > initial
>   > > > margin of $2500 is $25 dollars which is 5 points. This is 
of
>   > course
>   > > > when I do random entry technique. Other wise from my
>   experience
>   > if
>   > > > the dow moves more than 50 points against me I usually get
>   out.
>   > That
>   > > > is just my experience but it could be different for others.
>   > > > KS.
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
>   > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > > > I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on how 
the
>   > charts
>   > > > > > look.  The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't put
>   stops
>   > in
>   > > > > > because all electronic orders can be viewed by other
>   traders
>   > > > because
>   > > > > > the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to see.
>   This
>   > > > means
>   > > > > > that stops will get picked off. You will experience 
this
>   for
>   > > > > > yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and then
>   > proceeds
>   > > > to go
>   > > > > > back up again.  Since it is electronic it means
>   > instantaneous
>   > > > fills
>   > > > > > or close to it.  When the price hits my loss target I 
put
>   > the
>   > > > order
>   > > > > > in at the market, This is the stop process the Turtles
>   made
>   > > > famous
>   > > > > > and is probably the only thing that is useful from what
>   they
>   > > > > > originally did.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are 
trading
>   > very
>   > > > > large positions? Also if you are using wider stops in the
>   case
>   > of
>   > > > > position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your stops
>   > picked off
>   > > > > still a problem, given the wider stops?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > >Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow
>   > > > > > mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts 
unless
>   I'm
>   > > > > > position trading even then I prefer the electronic.  
The
>   > > > leverage or
>   > > > > > granularity you talk about is only relevant if you talk
>   > about
>   > > > risk.
>   > > > > > The higher the point value the greater the risk to 
reward
>   > ratio.
>   > > > If
>   > > > > > you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini 
contract.
>   > $5
>   > > > > > dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract. Volatility 
meters
>   > and
>   > > > price
>   > > > > > range can help with money management portion of the
>   trading.
>   > The
>   > > > Dow
>   > > > > > market are the easiest to trade because they trade in a
>   > range
>   > > > bound
>   > > > > > pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the dow
>   > futures
>   > > > > > contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big
>   Contracts
>   > and
>   > > > > > enter in the mini contracts.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big
>   > Contracts and
>   > > > > enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > > (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the mini 
sep
>   > dow
>   > > > at
>   > > > > > 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or $250.00 
and
>   it
>   > > > went to
>   > > > > > 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited at the
>   > market
>   > > > > > because it hit trend line support. I checked the stop
>   orders
>   > > > place
>   > > > > > at the time the market went to 10734 and the last stop
>   order
>   > was
>   > > > at
>   > > > > > that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the
>   > reasoning is
>   > > > > > that if I could see it the big leverage players will 
move
>   > the
>   > > > market
>   > > > > > to pick off the buy stop and let the market go down to 
its
>   > > > proper
>   > > > > > trend.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small number 
of
>   > > > contracts,
>   > > > > the big players may not have walked the index up there to
>   take
>   > out
>   > > > a
>   > > > > few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a 50 
point
>   > stop.
>   > > > 1
>   > > > > ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position trade,
>   > isn't the
>   > > > > stop a bit tight?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > >My stop method is from years of experience in this 
market
>   > > > > > and requires the ability to immediately exit a trade 
when
>   > the
>   > > > target
>   > > > > > stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes back 
down.
>   > You
>   > > > get
>   > > > > > out. Any change in this money management technique will
>   > cause
>   > > > losses.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > Yes, I understand, discipline.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > > One quick note : I tested with real money with a coin
>   flip.
>   > I
>   > > > > > entered long if it is heads and short if it is tails. I
>   put
>   > the
>   > > > stop
>   > > > > > loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow (5/10000). 
How
>   do
>   > you
>   > > > get 1%?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > > With this money management
>   > > > > > technique I was profitable.  Basically random entry 
into
>   the
>   > > > market
>   > > > > > with a proper money management system made it 
profitable.
>   > > > Trading
>   > > > > > is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to think 
it
>   was
>   > the
>   > > > > > other way around but it took awhile to figure this out.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I completely agree. THanks so much for your comments, KS.
>   > > > >
>   > > > > > KS.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
>   > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > > > > KS,
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > If you don't mind a few questions:
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day?
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added granularity 
of
>   YM
>   > > > over ES
>   > > > > > > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is 10x 
ES
>   > which
>   > > > means
>   > > > > > > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does YM's
>   finer
>   > > > > > > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out less?
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders only
>   > speak of
>   > > > it's
>   > > > > > > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that? Have 
you
>   > never
>   > > > been
>   > > > > > > hurt by the high leverage?
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night trading".
>   I'm
>   > > > assuming
>   > > > > > > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day traders
>   > allows
>   > > > for
>   > > > > > sleep?
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > Thank you for your help, KS.
>   > > > > > > Andy.
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > --- In 
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
>   > > > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > > > > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been 
trading
>   > the
>   > > > Dow
>   > > > > > > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it began. 
Once
>   > you
>   > > > trade
>   > > > > > > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is 
because
>   of
>   > the
>   > > > > > > > leveraging.  All the indexes move in direct 
relation
>   to
>   > the
>   > > > > > Stock
>   > > > > > > > Market indexes so any long term direction must be 
done
>   > with
>   > > > the
>   > > > > > Big
>   > > > > > > > Board not the mini's.  Be warned the Night Trading
>   moves
>   > the
>   > > > > > market
>   > > > > > > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is not 
an
>   > option.
>   > > > > > > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a high
>   level
>   > you
>   > > > will
>   > > > > > > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I think 
has
>   a
>   > good
>   > > > > > article
>   > > > > > > > on options.
>   > > > > > > > KS.
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > --- In 
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
>   > > > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
>   > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
>   > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my
>   questions.
>   > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > In your experience, how would you compare trading
>   the
>   > > > index
>   > > > > > versus
>   > > > > > > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES vs.
>   SPX,
>   > or
>   > > > NQ vs.
>   > > > > > > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very different, 
but
>   > > > besides
>   > > > > > that
>   > > > > > > > how
>   > > > > > > > > has your experience been?
>   > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from
>   > stocks/indexes
>   > > > to
>   > > > > > > > futures,
>   > > > > > > > > they never return to stocks...
>   > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
>   > <entinv@xxxx>
>   > > > wrote:
>   > > > > > > > > > From my experience future always track the 
index.
>   > For
>   > > > > > example
>   > > > > > > > > either you
>   > > > > > > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
>   > > > > > > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean
>   individual
>   > > > stocks,
>   > > > > > the
>   > > > > > > > future
>   > > > > > > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
>   > > > > > > > > > safer to buy.  Futures, both commodities and
>   indexes
>   > > > appear
>   > > > > > to
>   > > > > > > > > better comply
>   > > > > > > > > > with the technical analysis
>   > > > > > > > > > studies in comparison with individual stocks.
>   Many
>   > > > > > individual
>   > > > > > > > > stocks are
>   > > > > > > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
>   > > > > > > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding
>   > > > industry/group
>   > > > > > > > indexes.
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before.  Looks
>   > > > interesting
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   -----Original Message-----
>   > > > > > > > > >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On 
Behalf
>   Of
>   > > > > > metastkuser
>   > > > > > > > > >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
>   > > > > > > > > >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > >   Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
>   > Metastock to
>   > > > > > trade
>   > > > > > > > FUTURES?
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   Vladimir,
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   "It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but
>   for
>   > ES
>   > > > and
>   > > > > > YM
>   > > > > > > > you can
>   > > > > > > > > >   use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need longer 
term
>   > > > picture."
>   > > > > > > > > >     -- yes, it occured to me that I can use SPX
>   > instead
>   > > > of
>   > > > > > ES,
>   > > > > > > > and DIA
>   > > > > > > > > >   instead of YM. But, does the future always 
track
>   > the
>   > > > > > index?
>   > > > > > > > Wouldn't
>   > > > > > > > > >   the future move much faster than the index if
>   the
>   > > > index
>   > > > > > made a
>   > > > > > > > sudden
>   > > > > > > > > >   large move?
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   How do you like trading futures compared to
>   > equities?
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   By the way, have you heard of Track N Trade 
for
>   > > > > > backtesting
>   > > > > > > > futures?
>   > > > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > > > >   --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
>   > > > <entinv@xxxx>
>   > > > > > wrote:
>   > > > > > > > > >   > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
>   > > > > > > > > >   > It doesn't provide continuous contracts, 
but
>   for
>   > ES
>   > > > and
>   > > > > > YM
>   > > > > > > > you
>   > > > > > > > > can use
>   > > > > > > > > >   > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
>   > > > > > > > > >   > need longer term picture.
>   > > > > > > > > >   > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for
>   > > > Interactivebrokers.
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   > I don't trade options on futures.
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   > Regards,
>   > > > > > > > > >   >     Vladimir
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   -----Original Message-----
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > >   > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
>   Behalf
>   > Of
>   > > > > > > > metastkuser
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18 PM
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
>   > > > Metastock to
>   > > > > > > > trade
>   > > > > > > > > FUTURES?
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   Vladimir,
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   If you don't mind answering a couple of
>   > questions:
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-mini
>   (ES)
>   > and
>   > > > mini-
>   > > > > > Dow
>   > > > > > > > > (YM). I use
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day 
data. I
>   > don't
>   > > > > > want to
>   > > > > > > > pay
>   > > > > > > > > for the
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   omplete futures eod package. Do you know
>   where
>   > I
>   > > > can
>   > > > > > get
>   > > > > > > > eod
>   > > > > > > > > data for
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   just ES and YM?
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   2) Options on futures. I currently trade
>   > options
>   > > > credit
>   > > > > > > > > spreads on SPX
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   and would like to try credit spreads on 
ES
>   and
>   > YM.
>   > > > Do
>   > > > > > you
>   > > > > > > > trade
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   options on futures? Can Metastock support
>   this?
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   --- In 
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
>   > > > > > <entinv@xxxx>
>   > > > > > > > wrote:
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   > Yes, I do.
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   > Vladimir
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   -----Original Message-----
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
>   > Behalf
>   > > > Of
>   > > > > > > > metastkuser
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:53 
PM
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
>   > > > Metastock to
>   > > > > > > > trade
>   > > > > > > > > FUTURES?
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   Anyone using MS to trade futures?
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >
>   > > > > > > > > >   >   >   SPONSORED LINKS Business finance 
course
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