[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to trade FUTURES?



PureBytes Links

Trading Reference Links

<formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on how the charts 
> look.  The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't put stops in 
> because all electronic orders can be viewed by other traders because 
> the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to see. This means 
> that stops will get picked off. You will experience this for 
> yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and then proceeds to go 
> back up again.  Since it is electronic it means instantaneous fills 
> or close to it.  When the price hits my loss target I put the order 
> in at the market, This is the stop process the Turtles made famous 
> and is probably the only thing that is useful from what they 
> originally did. 

KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are trading very
large positions? Also if you are using wider stops in the case of
position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your stops picked off
still a problem, given the wider stops? 

>Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow 
> mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts unless I'm 
> position trading even then I prefer the electronic.  The leverage or
> granularity you talk about is only relevant if you talk about risk.  
> The higher the point value the greater the risk to reward ratio. If 
> you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini contract. $5 
> dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract. Volatility meters and price 
> range can help with money management portion of the trading. The Dow 
> market are the easiest to trade because they trade in a range bound 
> pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the dow futures 
> contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big Contracts and 
> enter in the mini contracts.  

This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big Contracts and
enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?

> (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the mini sep dow at 
> 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or $250.00 and it went to 
> 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited at the market 
> because it hit trend line support. I checked the stop orders place 
> at the time the market went to 10734 and the last stop order was at 
> that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the reasoning is 
> that if I could see it the big leverage players will move the market 
> to pick off the buy stop and let the market go down to its proper 
> trend.  

I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small number of contracts,
the big players may not have walked the index up there to take out a
few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a 50 point stop. 1
ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position trade, isn't the
stop a bit tight?

>My stop method is from years of experience in this market 
> and requires the ability to immediately exit a trade when the target 
> stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes back down. You get 
> out. Any change in this money management technique will cause losses.

Yes, I understand, discipline. 

> One quick note : I tested with real money with a coin flip. I 
> entered long if it is heads and short if it is tails. I put the stop 
> loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks. 

I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow (5/10000). How do you get 1%?

> With this money management 
> technique I was profitable.  Basically random entry into the market 
> with a proper money management system made it profitable.  Trading 
> is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to think it was the 
> other way around but it took awhile to figure this out.

I completely agree. THanks so much for your comments, KS.

> KS.
> 
> 
>  
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser" 
> <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > KS,
> > 
> > If you don't mind a few questions:
> > 
> > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day? 
> > 
> > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added granularity of YM over ES
> > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is 10x ES which means
> > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does YM's finer
> > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out less?
> > 
> > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders only speak of it's
> > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that? Have you never been
> > hurt by the high leverage?
> > 
> > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night trading". I'm assuming
> > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day traders allows for 
> sleep?
> > 
> > Thank you for your help, KS.
> > Andy.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been trading the Dow 
> > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it began. Once you trade 
> > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is because of the 
> > > leveraging.  All the indexes move in direct relation to the 
> Stock 
> > > Market indexes so any long term direction must be done with the 
> Big 
> > > Board not the mini's.  Be warned the Night Trading moves the 
> market 
> > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is not an option. 
> > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a high level you will 
> > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I think has a good 
> article 
> > > on options.
> > > KS.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser" 
> > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > Vladimir,
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. 
> > > > 
> > > > In your experience, how would you compare trading the index 
> versus
> > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES vs. SPX, or NQ vs.
> > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very different, but besides 
> that 
> > > how
> > > > has your experience been?
> > > > 
> > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from stocks/indexes to 
> > > futures,
> > > > they never return to stocks...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v" <entinv@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > From my experience future always track the index.  For 
> example
> > > > either you
> > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
> > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean individual stocks, 
> the 
> > > future
> > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
> > > > > safer to buy.  Futures, both commodities and indexes appear 
> to
> > > > better comply
> > > > > with the technical analysis
> > > > > studies in comparison with individual stocks.  Many 
> individual
> > > > stocks are
> > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
> > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding industry/group 
> > > indexes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before.  Looks interesting
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   -----Original Message-----
> > > > >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of 
> metastkuser
> > > > >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
> > > > >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to 
> trade 
> > > FUTURES?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Vladimir,
> > > > > 
> > > > >   "It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for ES and 
> YM 
> > > you can
> > > > >   use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need longer term picture."
> > > > >     -- yes, it occured to me that I can use SPX instead of 
> ES, 
> > > and DIA
> > > > >   instead of YM. But, does the future always track the 
> index? 
> > > Wouldn't
> > > > >   the future move much faster than the index if the index 
> made a 
> > > sudden
> > > > >   large move?
> > > > > 
> > > > >   How do you like trading futures compared to equities?
> > > > > 
> > > > >   By the way, have you heard of Track N Trade for 
> backtesting 
> > > futures?
> > > > > 
> > > > >   --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v" <entinv@xxxx> 
> wrote:
> > > > >   > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
> > > > >   > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
> > > > >   > It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for ES and 
> YM 
> > > you
> > > > can use
> > > > >   > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
> > > > >   > need longer term picture.
> > > > >   > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for Interactivebrokers.
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   > I don't trade options on futures.
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   > Regards,
> > > > >   >     Vladimir
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   -----Original Message-----
> > > > >   >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of 
> > > metastkuser
> > > > >   >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18 PM
> > > > >   >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   >   Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to 
> > > trade
> > > > FUTURES?
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   Vladimir,
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   If you don't mind answering a couple of questions:
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-mini (ES) and mini-
> Dow
> > > > (YM). I use
> > > > >   >   Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day data. I don't 
> want to 
> > > pay
> > > > for the
> > > > >   >   omplete futures eod package. Do you know where I can 
> get 
> > > eod
> > > > data for
> > > > >   >   just ES and YM?
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   2) Options on futures. I currently trade options credit
> > > > spreads on SPX
> > > > >   >   and would like to try credit spreads on ES and YM. Do 
> you 
> > > trade
> > > > >   >   options on futures? Can Metastock support this?
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >   --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v" 
> <entinv@xxxx> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >   >   > Yes, I do.
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   > Vladimir
> > > > >   >   >   -----Original Message-----
> > > > >   >   >   From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   >   > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of 
> > > metastkuser
> > > > >   >   >   Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:53 PM
> > > > >   >   >   To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   >   >   Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to 
> > > trade
> > > > FUTURES?
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >   Anyone using MS to trade futures?
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >   SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course  Business 
> to 
> > > business
> > > > >   finance
> > > > >   >   > Small business finance
> > > > >   >   >         Business finance consultant  Business 
> finance 
> > > magazine
> > > > >   Business
> > > > >   >   > finance schools
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >  
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > -------
> > > > >   > --
> > > > >   >   > --
> > > > >   >   >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >     a..  Visit your group "equismetastock" on the 
> web.
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an 
> email 
> > > to:
> > > > >   >   >      equismetastock-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
> > > Yahoo!
> > > > Terms of
> > > > >   >   > Service.
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >  
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > -------
> > > > >   > --
> > > > >   >   > --
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >  
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > -------
> > > > > --
> > > > >   > --
> > > > >   >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >     a..  Visit your group "equismetastock" on the web.
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email 
> to:
> > > > >   >      equismetastock-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
> Yahoo! 
> > > Terms of
> > > > >   > Service.
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   >
> > > > >  
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > -------
> > > > > --
> > > > >   > --
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > ---------
> > > > > --
> > > > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > 
> > > > >     a..  Visit your group "equismetastock" on the web.
> > > > > 
> > > > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >      equismetastock-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > 
> > > > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 
> > > Terms of
> > > > > Service.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > ---------
> > > > > --





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
<font face=arial size=-1><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hukhikq/M=362131.6882500.7825259.1493532/D=groups/S=1705375617:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1124778673/A=2889190/R=0/SIG=10r90krvo/*http://www.thebeehive.org
">Put more honey in your pocket. (money matters made easy) Welcome to the Sweet Life - brought to you by One Economy</a>.</font>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/equismetastock/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    equismetastock-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/