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d. funding available: for camps and all the required material.
e. genetics: being gifted to perform better tha others. better ones
are picked from childhood. so it is very close to impossible to be
olympic competitor in this era without having the right genetic
advatages.
d':the required $80-100k investment for education of a trader
e': would that be kinda luck factor?? the life long experinces to be
lived... hard to point this one : )
torque the rower
On 6/28/05, TecloGeo <teclogeo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Your point about personality is by far the most relevant to this whole
> discussion. The analogy between trading and sport has been made many times
> before, but it's worth repeating. It appropriate because we can all relate
> to it.
>
>
>
> It doesn't mater what the sport, there are three main areas that need
> preparation and practice in order to stand a chance of success (and even
> then success only comes after real-world experience is gained). These three
> areas are the physical, the technical and the mental. The direct comparisons
> with trading are obvious here…
>
> (a) Physical = fitness and health. OK, so traders don't exactly need to
> be able to run a 4-minute mile, but a lack of health is definitely
> detrimental to any "game".
>
> (b) Technical. While, for example, a tennis player will work on their
> serve, backhand, forehand drop-volley, etc so we have to work on our
> chart-reading skills, our understanding of fundamentals, our *knowledge and
> understanding of systems*, etc. These technical aspects relate to the
> *tactics* and the *strategies* we will employ on a trade-by-trade (or
> point-by-point for the tennis player) basis. They represent our arsenal of
> skills that we can unleash on the opponent(s).
>
> (c) Mental. If a tennis player caves in mentally when his/her opponent
> goes 5-2 games up in the final set then it's curtains. It matters not who
> has the better physical condition or who has the best strategy. By this time
> the strategy and tactics are far less important that *mental discipline*
>
>
>
> Your systems designers are simply people who specialise in (b) without
> addressing any of (a) or, most importantly, (c). Mental discipline involves
> self-control, self-understanding, courage, conviction, sheer pig-headedness
> and a whole host of other positive adjectives. Without these we as traders
> might as well give up. If we do not understand and have control of our own
> *personalities* then our opponents will simply out-psyche us and we will
> lose the game.
>
>
>
> So, in sport just as in trading you get people who offer mentorship (those
> especially who have "been there, seen it, done it"), people who offer
> technical advice (tacticians, if you will…or systems developers?) and people
> who motivate. No-one, however, can teach anyone else the personality
> chartacteristics that it requires in order to actually take all those skill
> sets and go out there on-court and win the equivalent of the US Open or
> Wimbledon.
>
>
>
> End of story!
>
>
>
> Apart from just to add that professional sports people do actually *pay*
> (directly or indirectly) their mentors, trainers, managers, etc. These
> people all have a place in the grand scheme of things. If they have
> recognised and declared up-front that they themselves do not now have, or
> never did have, what it takes to actually *do* all the stuff they teach,
> then that is usually all well and fair. But don't think for a minute that
> they don't check out the credentials of the "expert" before they go ahead
> and employ their services…
>
>
>
> As for back-testing systems…that has always to my mind been like saying
> "damn, I could have beaten McEnroe in the '84 final if I'd have used these
> tactics" (let's assume for a minute that we are Boris Becker!). The whole
> question, whilst useful, ignores the whole mental aspect - the state of mind
> we would have been in at the time. And let's not ignore gut instinct here
> either…how many points are one with pure instinct? Personally speaking, as I
> get better and more experienced at trading, I am finding that I can trust
> mine more and more. I will never rely on it and I will never use it alone,
> without some sort of "evidence" to support my decision…but it's bloody
> difficult to back-test!! Discretionary vs. systems argument re-hashed??
> Maybe…but who out there really uses 100% mechanical decisions anyway?
>
>
>
> Basic point…never underestimate the influence of personality and mental
> state on actions/decisions taken "in the heat of battle". Don't criticise
> out-of-hand people who specialise in "after battle" analysis - they can help
> prepare you for your next game. On the other hand, rely on, or blame no-one
> but yourself for both points won and points lost!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of jawjahtek
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:52 AM
> To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Re: system tester shortcomings--goose gander
> correction
>
>
>
> Some answers to your questions since I have met some of these people:
>
> 1. Dr. Alexander Elder writes books, sells software, offers seminars
> and personal coaching/consulting. Anyone know if he trades?
>
> Yes, Dr. Elder trades but it is a minimal level. He has tried and
> failed several times to use his trading methods for an advisory
> service. I'm not trying to disparage his work (or anyone elses), I am
> just reporting what I know.
>
> 2. Chuck Lebeau develops systems. I love his writings. Anyone know
> if he trades?
>
> Yes, LeBeau trades his various systems, but he is far more successful
> at selling his systems. In his case, his clients are institutions
> first. Systems that he sells to the average investor have already
> been "fully utilized" by LeBeau's big dollar clients.
>
> 3. Van Tharpe was apparently unsuccessful in any trading and only
> provides seminars now.
>
> 4. Ed Seykota, I haven't met him so I cannot make an honest comment.
>
> Bouns:
> John Ehlers (MESA and its various incarantions). John is an engineer.
> At a session where I met him, he showed his partially successful but
> unimpressive trading record. John readily admits that he hates
> trading.
>
> I think John Ehlers is a good example of the personality of a system
> developer vs. the personality of a trader. Systems development
> requires a willingness to program accurately. Accurate programs are a
> pain to write, test and debug for the average person. A good system
> developer's personality borders on obsessive perfectionism. Trading
> on the other hand is a very messy business. A good trader readily
> accepts that many trades will fail. Perfectionists do not make good
> traders. It is rare for a good programmer to be a good trader. It
> simply requires a different personality type.
>
>
> jawjahtek
>
>
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > Very interesting post.
> >
> > Dr. Alexander Elder writes books, sells software, offers seminars
> and
> > personal coaching/consulting. Anyone know if he trades?
> >
> > Chuck Lebeau develops systems. I love his writings. Anyone know if
> he
> > trades? Same questions with Van Tharp.
> >
> > What about Ed Seykota? No doubt about his trading abilities and
> > wealth. So why does he offer a consultation service at Incline
> Village?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
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>
--
Dr. Torque
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FXtrades
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