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First of all, I realize that you and I have different takes on
things...but that does not mean we should all simply remain silent
because you have spoken. I had felt we could convey our own take on
this issue without attacking each other? You know, different points
of views from ADULTS.
-------------------------
I am concerned that you "fix" for Ice (which I thought of and tried)
does not work. If I put in the bogus "short" indicator as you suggest
in step one, then I have to optimize again before sending the final
numbers in for the expert to be created... as is the procedure. That
"short" indicator you put in to get around the fact you can't just put
in two or three long indicators influences the final optimization
before the expert is created does it not? This is my concern. For
those trading long side only (for whatever reasons) their system is
making less on the long side because of a short side included in the
optimization.
Your method of of having a two indicator or three indicator system
long system only in ICE is to optimize against one or two short
indicators which you don't use. Part of my reason for bring this up
here is because it is NOT covered in the manual and is important.
because the LONG side system does then not do as well as it could if
it had not also optimized taking the short side into account. You
cannot optimize a long system in the enhanced system tester with a
short side to the game without having that influence the outcome can
you? You can tell the enhanced system tester to give preference to
the long side but is that the same as entirely ignoring the short
side? The only reason a short side has to be in there at all is
because you aren't allowed to skip an indicator type using their tool.
It's needs work in my opinon. This is a basic issue.
There is no magic number of indicators to use in trading the markets.
Using 4 indicators in NOT a magic number. Your ICE optizations may
come up with 3 indicators which trade in the time frame you prefer and
one indicators which hardly makes a move. One entire group of
indicators may have a lousy result with an index or stock and in
essense you are still being asked to include one from that group.
Thus causing the system to move far more slowly than you want to trade
or give less desireable results. But getting rid of the fourth
indicator, I believe, may also cause a problem because of how the last
optimization works in the enhanced system tester.
And if I'm wrong, then the entire subject should be covered in the
manual. If ICE is for non programers then they shouln't have to be a
programmer to get it to play a long side or a short side 2 or 3
indicator only. The ice folks should adjust their existing tools or
Set up a two indicator formula builder tool and a three indicator
formula building tool for those who only want to use two or three
idicators rather than four.
--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, superfragalist <no_reply@xxxx>
wrote:
> I agree ICE 2.0 is still in the development stage. Everything is
> still in the development stage, including MS, so at what point do you
> start using it!
>
> In regard to the manual, show me the perfect manual, and I'll show
> you a company that doesn't exist. That's always a problem. The ICE
> 2.0 manual is the weakest part of the product, no doubt.
>
> If you want to create an expert in ICE using only three indicators
> long, simply input the indicators you want to use when the three
> input screens for those indicators come up. Since it's long only, you
> uncheck the short box on those screens. When the screen for the
> indicator group you don't want to use in your expert comes up,
> uncheck the long box, leave the short box checked and pick a bogus
> indicator for it. When the expert comes back the long signals will be
> valid with only three indicators. The short signal is not valid
> because you did a long only expert, turn it off.
>
> The four indicators are used in ICE to create a balanced trading
> system. Four experts with no co-linearity all giving a signal means
> you get a higher probability signal. If you use three, you may get
> more signals but the probability of getting a good signal goes down.
> You can use only one indicator for your signals, if you like, but
> again everything has it's price. It's a personal decision. A good
> moving average works great, if you don't mind a few whipsaws.
>
> I had the broad market indicators already programmed into MS before
> 9.0 came along so for me they didn't matter. In addition, I've found
> the Rydex Ratio based on the Rydex fund flows is a lot more accurate
> than the broad market indicators. The broad market indicator give
> wishy washy signals. Half look good--half don't. It's rare when they
> all point in the same direction.
>
> There are several bugs in MS 9.0. Check the expert BM-NYSE Mkt OV.
> See any problem with the formulas in the trend section. That might be
> why you're getting mixed messages. Better check everything when
> you're an early adopter.
>
> 9.0 will be a good upgrade for some and for some it won't be.
>
> It's good that it opened you up to new possibilites. Price Headley's
> book and Mike McDonald's book might help you understand what the BM
> indicators really mean.
>
> Big Trends in Trading: Strategies to Master Major Market Moves
> and Predict Market Swings With Technical Analysis
>
> Mike told me he was writing a new book, but I haven't seen it yet. He
> wrote an interesting article in Futures Magazine on using the Rydex
> data.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastockuser"
> <metastockuser@xxxx> wrote:
> > Ice 2.0 seems as if it's still in the development stage. And the
> > manual doesn't tell me much that I would like to know.
> >
> > For instance, what if I want to make a long only system and only use
> > two of the three indicators instead of four. No short side, just
> two
> > or three indicators for the long side? How do I do that without
> > inputing a short side or an unwanted indicator which becomes part of
> > the optimization.
> >
> > I think the four indicator system also tend to force you to trade
> > slower possibly than the average trader wants to trade.
> >
> > I've never been willing to pay for broader market index data. When
> I
> > finally decided to pay for it, I called reuters and learned that
> they
> > also had 9.0 out with the broader market indicators, expert systems,
> > etc. I like it. I'm not learning about broader market indicators
> and
> > attempting to optimize them.
> >
> > One possible problem and I wonder if others see it. In the NYSE
> > Broader Market Overview Expert system. If you select the commentary
> > it's telling me that on 4-8-09: Advancing issues outnumber the
> > declining issues. This is causing the Advance/Decline line to rise.
> A
> > rising Advance/Decline line indicates a rising market.
> >
> > This appears to be a bug to me. I'm showing that Advancing Issues
> > were fewer than declining issues on Thursday and that the AD line
> was
> > falling. So it appears to me that one of the Indicators their NYSE
> > expert commentary is commenting on is being read wrong throws the
> > entire experts final outcome into doubt.
> >
> > Why doesn't their Enhance System Tester give me the Absolute and
> > relative draw down numbers? What good is it to know the dollar
> > drawdown when you don't know at what dollar amount that drawdown
> > started at? I see the lack of really clear draw down stats as a
> > weakness in their system tester. Did the next day buy get fixed?
> I'm
> > thinking that the EOD signals are now generating a next day buy
> rather
> > than same day buy is anyone else seeing that or am I wrong?
> >
> > Ice 2.0 is interesting but needs improvement. If you don't use
> Market
> > Breadth indicators are all, are willing to pay for the download of
> > indicie data or already are, I think the 9.0 upgrade is worth it.
> >
> > Right now I'm looking for ways to include market breadth in my
> trading
> > systems.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, durango12342003
> <no_reply@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > I was thinking of getting the upgrade to 9.0, but I have a few
> > questions.
> > > Maybe someone out there can help me.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have 8.0 professional for e-signal. However I use it end of
> day. I use
> > > Metaquote for my data. Will 9.0 work with metaquote? Does anybody
> know?
> > >
> > > Has anybody tried 9.0? What are your feelings? Is it a big
> improvement?
> > > A good improvement? Littleimprovement? Is it worth the 200 bucks?
> > >
> > >
> > > On the equis website they are selling The plug-in Ice 2.0. Has
> anbody
> > > used it? Is it any good? Is it worth spending $300.00 for?
> > >
> > > Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for your help in
> advance.
> > >
> > > Fred D.
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