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You are confirming the old rule: if too many people are using the same
method, it becomes ineffective.
Lionel Issen
lissen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Taglavore" <altag@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Turtle Trader System
> >And, of course, there is Russell Sands, but he
> > reportedly was dropped from the program before learning the fine points
> > of money management and trade tactics.
>
> Russell did complete the program. Russell was soundly denounced because
he
> was the first to divulge the Turtle program. I sat in the first workshop
> Russell conducted after he broke the "silence". Russell Sands is also a
> very astute blackjack player. Strictly in the professional class. I was
> more impressed with his casino play than the Turtle System. Larry Connors
> was one of the first to take the Turtle System and use it in a contrarian
> way. Once the system was brought into open light, the effectiveness of
the
> original method was diminished.
>
> Al
> ----------
> > From: Owen Davies <owen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Turtle Trader System
> > Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:15 PM
> >
> > Robert Badgley blustered:
> >
> >
> > > The entry and exit on the turtle system is only about 30% of the
system
> > most
> > > of the money is made with money management.
> >
> > Yup.
> >
> > > L. Williams needs to more
> > > throughly investagate before writing about something he does not
> > understand.
> >
> > Oh, come on. I've seen the basics of Turtle money management in public
> > literature, and I have never even gone looking for it. If memory
serves,
> > Van Tharp presents one of the key features in his book, though I'm not
> sure
> > he identified it as such. And, of course, there is Russell Sands, but
he
> > reportedly was dropped from the program before learning the fine points
> > of money management and trade tactics. With all the information that
> > has come out about the Turtles system, it would amaze me if Williams
> > didn't understand the critical aspects of it. Nothing in this thread
> > indicates
> > that he did not, other than that his results displease you.
> >
> > Incidentally, how did you get to be an expert on Turtles-style money
> > management?
> >
> > > It is working and always will work if used with Turtles money
> management.
> >
> > Ah, so that explains why Dennis blew out so badly in the early '90s.
> > In my ignorance, I'd imagined it was because the system ran into a
period
> > when it did not work. Like every other system I've ever heard of.
> >
> > > Thats like taking an engine out of a car and saying the car does not
> run
> > of
> > > course not you need the whole car including the engine.
> >
> > It would be, if that's what Williams had done. Again, nothing in the
> > message you are responding to addresses this issue. For all we know,
> > he may have done it exactly as Dennis prescribed.
> >
> > Maybe it's worth noting that I've never seen a money management
> > technique that turns a loss into a win. Some that would keep you out
> > of the market when you were likely to have a loss; I'd call that
> > trading tactics, but if you wish to view it as money management,
> > I won't argue the point. Most discussions of the Turtle technique
> > do seem to prefer that term, now that I think about it.
> >
> > Robert, I don't usually take people to task this way, and I apologize
> > for giving in to the impulse in your case. However, your response to
> > Brian is seriously dogmatic and combative, especially given that you
> > provide no evidence at all to support your position. Larry Williams
> > is one of those figures in this industry who inspire strong feelings,
> often
> > negative, and you leave me wondering whether your message was
> > motivated more by animus than by knowledge.
> >
> > If you have evidence to support the continued success of Turtle Trading,
> > including the money management procedures, I'd love to hear it. My
> > strong impression, based on interviews and suchlike, has been that the
> > original Turtles who are still trading have altered the technique to
suit
> > today's market conditions or have gone on to other methods entirely.
> >
> > Owen Davies
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