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A very simple question to answer. I use your product because it is one of the few that offer decent built in drawing capabilities (pixel level). How much money I or my employers have is largely irrelevant, all tools are considered for the job.
I'm sorry that you don't want to take some constructive criticism from other people in the field. That is unfortunate for your customers. I, nor anyone else has suggested that you failed in your original endeavor, or that AB/AFL is unworthy of any recognition. If you re-read my original posts you'll see that I mention that it has some positive attributes. But if you expect everyone to blindly praise you and suppress constructive criticism or advice than you will be disappointed. The best software takes the best ideas from everyone and synthesizes them
together. I still have hope that AB can someday be the best.
Cheers.
From: Tomasz Janeczko <groups@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 8:37:17 PM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL Language
Hello,
If you are so great and working for all those multi-billion
institutions I am wondering what are you doing here,
using so cheap and "flawed" system as you wrote in your original post.
Surely for that amount of money that you have in hand
you could hire best programmers in the world and write your own
super-trouper language and all that stuff.
So please give me a break. I wrote AFL for myself back in 1995 because
I need tool for my own purposes. I decided to offer it for others and
some people liked it. That's whole story. If you do not like it then
search elsewhere or write your own for your multi-billion institution.
And no thanks I do not need your advice.
Best regards,
Tomasz Janeczko
amibroker.com
On 2010-01-10 02:24, Potato Soup wrote:
Sorry for adding my "twisted" opinion, which only has experience
building trading systems for multi-billion dollar institutions.
And Python's math modules that are implemented in Fortran and C are not
"slow" In fact there are Python math implementations that run on GPUs.
Python as a language can be optimized to be as fast as anything.
I'm more than happy to offer help if the AB author needs assistance
adopting more modern and "twisted" technologies. My goal in offering
the feedback was to help improve the product.
Cheers.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:17:31 +0100
Subject: Re: [amibroker] A computer science related
question on the AFL Language
Hello,
Precisely.
AFL is designed to be able to express trading system rules / indicators
in easy and short form and to be fast. That's all. It is intended to be
easy to use and fast thanks to array processing that general-purpose
languages lack. Just compare Traders Tips formulas published on S&C
site for various platforms (some of them using so called "standard"
laguages) and you will quickly find which formula is the shortest and
easiest to understand. That speaks for itself and has more weight that
sombody's twisted opinion.
If one wants full blown C++ - one can use it - just write your code in
C++, compile it as a plugin and that's it.
Python/Lua and all that stuff are slow compared to AFL array
processing. And as far as object-oriented programming is considered,
most people are not comfortable with it (and belive it or not but most
people are NOT programmers). I can tell that because I hear a lot of
feedback from users.
Best regards,
Tomasz Janeczko
amibroker.com
On 2010-01-09 14:57, Prashanth wrote:
Its not a question
of whether it can be improved or not. Its a question of how user
friendly it is. Most traders are not programmers and hence complex
coding is out of question for vast majority. Its this group that
appreciates the easiness of coding in AFL as compared to other
languages which may hold more potential but can be much more difficult
to learn.
I believe TJ has
simpliefied as much as possible and maybe during that simplification
process, there were some sacrifices that were done. Unless one is a
hard core programmer, I feel AFL more than meets every specification.
For those who like to use more tools, ADK is always there to use and
create outside of AB what they desire to achieve.
Cheers
Prashanth
-----
Original
Message -----
Sent:
Saturday, January 09, 2010 19:15 PM
Subject:
Re: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL Language
Why design one when Python is free, as is Lua, Squirrel and other easy
scripting languages? I have built many trading systems for hedge funds
and big banks. Never once considered building a language with it.
Sounds like you think AFL can't be improved? From a language
perspective AFL has some good ideas and concepts but uneven execution.
A lot of things feel incrementally added, whether they were or not I
don't know.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:34:37 -0500
Subject: RE: [amibroker] A computer science related
question on the AFL Language
Well,
you
should design one! As far as I am concerned, elegant and great
price/quality ratio, the best in the market in that bracket. Part of my
tool box and achieved north of 70% last year with it.
JP
AFL is an imperative language
primarily with a dose of vector processing features that enable the
terseness that you talk about. I would not describe it as an OO
language in any way, just because it has OO bindings or provides access
to objects. If you can not write an object then the OO syntax
introduced in the backtester is syntactic sugar at best. I also
wouldn't say it has anywhere near the power of C or C++ just because it
offers some syntax similarities. Those languages derive their power
mainly from their ability to access memory directly, and at the OS'
discretion this means writing directly to hardware memory maps. Of
course C++ takes things much further. But AFL doesn't give you anywhere
the expressive data structure creation abilities that a true imperative
or OO language would.
Personally I feel AFL is a deeply flawed language that mixes constructs
from Basic and C at very superficial levels. It provides its power from
underneath the hood, not at the true language level.
I would pay a lot of money for AB with Python as its language, using
NumPy as the fast math and numerical processing underpinning.
This is not to say that AFL doesn't have elegant concepts or
advantages. It is just not a well designed language from the ground up.
-----Original Message-----
From: "cascade3891" <cascade3891@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:26:59
To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL
Language
Hi Amibroker community,
I have specific questions about the AFL language, regarding where it
stands within the computer language spectrum(s) and what effect that
has on speed/performance, agility and modularity as well as its
accuracy for readability and unit testing purposes.
I know that AFL is not an object oriented programming language for the
main part (however it does have some OO features like COM), does this
make AFL primarily a functional programming language, a bit like
OCaml??
Are functional programming languages better for financial trading
applications? Where there is a need for speed, and quality stable code?
AFL seems a lot brief in terms of the amount of code that you have to
write (terse) ... this makes it more attractive for reading over and
checking the code, and for backtesting purposes.
I notice also that with AFL you don't have to declare data types, again
making it much more efficient.
Is there a drawback to using an OO code for financial trading
systems/applications?
I quite like the speed and terseness of the AFL language actually, and
also since it has many similarities to C. But would there be any
limitations to not being able to define classes and objects?
I'm not an experience programmer so sorry if I sound green.
Anyone have any ideas on Tomasz' original design philosophy when he set
out creating the AFL language? to me it seems like he wanted to keep
the power and similarities to C/C++ given the similar syntactical
structure, whether because he knows that language well, or because he
wanted it to be able to have the same sort of power, but he also seems
to have kept in mind the needs for performance and stability, terseness
for backtesting/speed purposes, and maybe also b/c most traders need to
pick up the language, hence trying to make AFL easier to grasp.
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This is *NOT* technical support channel.
TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to
SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at
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(submissions sent via other channels won't be considered)
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
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