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Everybody is talking in terms of black and white but
as with most things in the legal world it is never that simple. In the
U.S., for non-license situations the question is whether usage falls
under the Fair Use Act. As I recall from being hit up the side of the head
with a 2 x 4 by various lawyers, the factors that come into play for Fair Use
situations are (1) is it being used for commercial (not covered) or educational
purposes (OK), (2) functional aspects of the code (not
protected) versus their _expression_ (protected), (3) percentage of the
code copied, and (4) the effect of copying on the market (can't use someone's
code to knock them out of the box).
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:38
AM
Subject: [amibroker] Re: Why are there so
few?
They most certainly can make it stick that you cannot write
anything
you want. Yahoo has patents on their search algorithms. You
cannot
duplicate that in AFL, or any other language, without paying them a
licensing fee. Same goes for virtually every other commercial
offering.
That being said. There's nothing stopping you from
obtaining the same
or better results via a *different* algorithm (hello
Google).
You can always build a better mouse trap. You just can't
assemble it
using all the same parts put together in the same
way.
Mike
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxx> wrote:
>
> > Would you make
the same claim of ownership upon the works of a
> > spanish poet
simply because you paid someone to teach you a
foreign
> >
language?
>
> Yes, I wondered about copyright of code compared to
poetry, prose
etc.
>
> Yes, I am respectful of peoples
intellectual efforts.
>
> BUT!
>
> English is in the
public domain .... AFL is owned by AmiBroker?
>
> I doubt if
anyone can make it stick that I can't use AFL to write
> anything I
want to write.
>
> I imagine it is an argument that rages between
and amongst
> programmers (individual and corporate).
>
>
> brian_z
>
>
>
>
> -- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Mike"
<sfclimbers@> wrote:
> >
> > > In fact I find the
idea of copyrighting AFL somewhat
> > ridiculous.....
> >
> Tomasz created the language and I purchased the right to use it
>
> when
> > > I bought AB.... all of it, in any way I see
fit.
> >
> > AFL is simply a medium of _expression_, just as
any spoken language
> is.
> >
> > Would you make
the same claim of ownership upon the works of a
> > spanish poet
simply because you paid someone to teach you a
foreign
> >
language?
> >
> > You are free to compose your own works,
and to reap the personal
> > rewards from sharing them. However,
that does not give you any
> claim
> > to the works of anyone
else.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"brian_z111" <brian_z111@>
wrote:
> > >
> >
> > I think that the larger question is protection of AFL's.
>
> > > Anyway, I'd be interested in others thoughts on this
issue.
> > >
> > > Thanks for raising the issue ...
best to have an open
discussion.
> > >
> > > I am
offended by the idea of copyrighting AFL code.
> > >
> >
> I like Howard, and I quite like his book, but I didn't like the
>
> fact
> > > that he tried to claim copyright of the code
contained in it.
> > >
> > > In fact I find the idea
of copyrighting AFL somewhat
> > ridiculous.....
> > >
Tomasz created the language and I purchased the right to use it
> >
when
> > > I bought AB.... all of it, in any way I see
fit.
> > >
> > > I am happy to share, for free, any
code that I have 'written'
if
> I
> > > feel is
worthwhile and that I have the time to present it in a
> > >
reasonable way.
> > >
> > > I think you will have a
problem copyrighting code because you
> can't
> > > be
certain that I haven't already written anything you may
write,
>
> or
> > > claim to have written, and have it stored on my
computer.
> > > Perhaps someone broke into my computer, stole the
code and gave
> it
> > to
> > > you .... I might
have to sue you if you claim it is your
> proprietry
> > >
code.
> > >
> > > I don't have a problem with
commercial activity though and I am
> > happy
> > > to
consider purchasing plugins, books, training, financial
advice
>
> > etc ... as long as the business is done at another site and
only
> > > referenced, via link, from this forum.
> > >
> > >
> > > Trading knowledge is another matter ...
I would sell my trading
> > > ideas, if it suited me, and I would
attempt to copyright the
> > methods
> > > (once again
that would be difficult to do) but the code I use
to
> > >
express, or implement those ideas can't and/or shouldn't be
> > >
copyrighted IMO.
> > >
> > >
> > > Re
conflict of commercial/personal interests:
> > >
> >
> I have experienced conflicting forces in this area.
> > >
> > > When I wrote for the UKB, and when I was considering
setting up
> > > another site for AB users, I did have to weigh
up the benefit
to
> > > other users against the fact that I
was essentially working for
> AB
> > > for free and
building an valueable commercial asset for
AmiBroker.
> > >
> > > I still feel that way, even with this forum ... to me it is
a
> trade
> > > off between the desire to help others, and
share trading
> friendship
> > > with them, while at the
same time realising it is essentially
an
> AB
> > >
support desk and marketing arm.
> > >
> > >
brian_z
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"bruce1r" <brucer@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
Progster -
> > > >
> > > > Your response
addressed DLL's and made good points about
> > >
intellectual
> > > > property, but IMO you might have missed a
point and been a
> little
> > > off
> > > >
the larger target.
> > > >
> > > > I think that
the larger question is protection of AFL's.
This
> is
>
> > > something that Howard Bandy and I discussed with Tomasz at
the
> > > > conference in Feb. I'm going to delve into it
a little here
> > > because I
> > > > think that
it is time to air it again, then I'll offer a
quick
> >
point
> > > > about DLL's.
> > > >
> >
> > Many have AFL's (trading systems, AND utilities) that they
would
> > > > release if they could protect them.
There are two reasons for
> > > > protecting the source - one
obvious and one not so obvious -
> > > >
> > >
> 1. To charge for the code and for the intellectual property.
> The
> > > > market will decide if the price is
reasonable or not.
> > > >
> > > > 2. To
protect the source. Many times others will mod the
> source
> > and
> > > > then tie up author's time with
questions about how the
original
> > > > software worked OR
why the modified software doesn't work.
> This
> > is
> > > a
> > > > real problem. I have
released a fair amount of AB code in
> another
> > > >
venue and can relate this problem firsthand.
> > > >
>
> > > My impression is that Tomasz is reluctant to incorporate
AFL
> > > > protection for a couple of reasons. I won't
try to speak for
> > him,
> > > but
> > >
> I think that one of his reasons is that he feels that
protected
> > code
> > > > that possibly had a charge would
impede the sharing of code.
> To
> > > that
>
> > > all that I can ask is - how much is not now being released
> because
> > > > this facility doesn't exist.
Howard and I and others have
> tried
> > to
> > >
> emphasize this.
> > > >
> > > > Now to
DLL's. Certainly code can be placed in a DLL to hide
> it.
> > It
> > > > is also fairly easy to protect
it. It is just a pain and a
> > > > productivity hit to
convert AFL to a DLL just to protect it.
> And
> >
in
> > > > the end, any protection can be broken by a
determined hacker.
> > > > Protection tends to fall into two
categories -
> > > >
> > > > 1. Wrappers for
EXE's and DLL's that implement keyed
protection
> > for
>
> > > existing binaries and require no changes. The protection
may
> or
> > may
> > > > not be machine
unique. For example, ASPROTECT
> > > >
> > > >
2. Embedded protection calls that require changes to the
app.
> > > Several
> > > > libraries available - some
open such as ACTIVELOCK
> > > >
> > > > Anyway,
I'd be interested in others thoughts on this issue.
> > > >
> > > > -- Bruce R
> > > >
> > >
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"progster01" <progster@>
> wrote:
> > > >
>
> > > > > The discussion so far on "Why so few?" DLLs
seems pretty
much
> > > > > on-target to me.
>
> > > >
> > > > > I would add:
> >
> > >
> > > > > Ability to program a non-trivial
DLL is a marketable skill
> that
> > > takes
> >
> > > a long time to develop.
> > > > >
>
> > > > There are certainly a number of fine examples of free
> > > contribution to
> > > > > the AB
community in the DLL area (e.g. RMath, for one).
> > > >
>
> > > > > One can only feel gratitude and appreciation
for
such "above
> and
> > > > > beyond"
contributions.
> > > > >
> > > > >
However, capable DLL authors have the same 24/7/365
> limitations
> > as
> > > > > everyone else, and must confront
a simple choice about
> > how/where
> > > to
>
> > > > spend their time and effort: getting paid, or not getting
> paid.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since
DLL writing is (almost) platform agnostic, DLL
writers
> in
> > > the
> > > > > trading area will have a
tendency to code for platforms
that
> > > provide
>
> > > > built-in support for locking a DLL to a customer or
software
> ID.
> > > > >
> > > >
> I would predict that such "commercializing" integration
> >
features
> > > would
> > > > > result in a
distinct increase in the number of commercial
DLLs
> > > >
> available for AB.
> > > > >
> > >
>
> > >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
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**** IMPORTANT ****
This group is for the discussion between users only.
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