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Dennis,
Can you expand, practically & operationally, on how you would see this
AFL program working...? It's still not quite clear to me.
Thanks
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx> wrote:
>
> Keith you are inspiring my thinking,
>
> I am going to formally propose a two pronged approach to move forward
> from here.
>
> 1. We create a simple text only template to gather information
> initially for the glossary project -- more than one person can work in
> parallel gathering data.
>
> 2. We write a simple AFL program that reads in this text file, and
> generates an output text file in whatever format we want.
>
> As ridiculous at it sounded when I first wrote it, I am not so sure it
> is a bad idea anymore. We all have AB running on our machines and we
> all know (or are learning) how to make AFL programs. So even though
> a VB or JS or C++ or EMACS or whatever language might be the best
> choice for one of us, AFL is a common denominator. And it will make a
> great example too of using it for something useful other than trading.
>
> The output file could be just like what you generated or it could an
> HTML file complete with links inserted that could sit in the UKB.
>
> This approach would keep us from having to define and fiddle with
> formatting issues on a finished document that could slow us down or
> limit the ultimate uses of the data. Instead we could concentrate on
> gathering the data as one phase and formatting the output in another
> phase. The two phases can be independent and actually proceed in
> parallel. The skills needed are different for each. We could even
> have two different AFL programs. One to generate text documents and
> another for HTML docs. It takes a different skill set to know how to
> generate HTML vs just a text document. We can use parameters to
> define the formatting we want. Also anyone would be free to write any
> other formatting program in any other language they want to generate
> other outputs.
>
> New data can be added at any time without messing with formats later,
> because it is auto generated from the raw data. Since formatting is
> not an issue we could take a integrated or distributed approach to the
> initial data phase. People can take a section and work on it as a
> separate text doc and merge them later, or we could use a
> collaborative doc editing setup on the web. Either way or both way
> would work to start with. The collaborative way might be better for
> the long term, but I am no expert on these setups --I usually work
> alone at home on local data.
>
> Suggested template filled out for abs and CCIa examples:
> Notes: a n t for data type, 'for text of arg (see examples),
> unused fields can be deleted without harm, only Entry: is required.
>
> Entry: abs()
> Returns: a n
> Args: a n
> ABLink: http://www.amibroker.com/guide/afl/afl.php?id=3
> UKBLink:
> VideoLink:
> Name: Absolute value
> Use: Returns absolute value of a number or array
> ABVer: 1.0
> Hierarchy: Functions, Math
> Tags: absolute, sign, positive
> Related: sign()
>
> Entry: CCIa()
> Returns: a
> Args: a, n 'period=14
> ABLink: http://www.amibroker.com/guide/afl/afl.php?id=29
> UKBLink:
> VideoLink:
> Name: Commodity Channel Index
> Use: Returns Commodity Channel Index of an array
> ABVer: 4.2
> Hierarchy: Functions, Indicators
> Tags: CCI, Woodie, overbought, oversold
> Related: CCI()
>
> Comments?
>
> Best regards,
> Dennis
>
> On Sep 1, 2008, at 6:14 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
> > Keith,
> >
> > Thanks, Nice work. You put some good thought into this.
> >
> > I like the way you added the full calling form and array vs number
> > and I suppose a t for text results.
> >
> > An extract of a couple of simple ones from your doc for everyone to
> > see:
> >
> >
> >> The 'a' and 'n' at the beginning of each function below indicates
> >> that the function returns an 'array' or a 'number' respectively.
> >> Some functions return neither, while some can return either.
> >>
> >>
> >> AB -- AmiBroker
> >>
> >> Search: amibroker.com, TJ, Tomasz Janeczko
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> a n abs(a|n) -- absolute value.
> >>
> >> Search: math, sign
> >>
> > I could see this also as a good *generated* output format from the
> > basic data set. Could we have our cake and eat it too? Meaning
> > have an input format that captures potentially more information, and
> > automatically generate this or similar documents that can be
> > downloaded or uploaded to the UKB.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > BR,
> > Dennis
> >
> > On Sep 1, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Keith McCombs wrote:
> >
> >> Dennis and others --
> >> I've started a very simple version of a glossary, just plain text
> >> and no columns or links. As simple is it is, I believe that it
> >> satisfies the primary need -- helping the user find what to look
> >> for in the already existing documentation.
> >>
> >> If I include it in this Yahoogroups form, it gets all reformatted
> >> and is difficult to read. Therefore, I've uploaded it to:
> >> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/files/ Look for:
> >> "Preliminary AB Glossary km080901-1.doc"
> >>
> >> BTW, I tried to put it in Googledocs in both .odt and .doc formats,
> >> but Googledocs wouldn't include the leading spaces in sentences.
> >> And I'm not very good at using 'cryptic' indentation techniques.
> >> If we were to do shared documents on Googledocs, would I have to
> >> learn the 'cryptic' secrets?
> >>
> >> -- Keith
> >>
> >> Dennis Brown wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Keith,
> >>>
> >>> Great! I can't wait to see what you come up with. 20 sounds like
> >>> a lot to tackle first round though.
> >>>
> >>> I have been trying to think about what KIND of information (not th
> >>> e actual format) would be useful to include also. We don't have
> >>> to have everything first pass.
> >>>
> >>> I was just making a list here. It still feels like I am groping
> >>> in the dark, but a little light at the end of the tunnel.
> >>>
> >>> Glossary Entry: "Only one entry per form"
> >>> Doc Link: Link to the best AB doc place to learn about this
> >>> entry --by clicking on the entry
> >>> UKB Link: Optional link to a UKB page --could be a substitute
> >>> manual
> >>> Other Link: Optional link to another doc page --could be a
> >>> tutorial video
> >>> Description: "Short descr iption of the entry"
> >>> AFL version: First AB version number to support this
> >>> Hierarchy: "TopLevel", "Level2",... "LastLevel" --used for
> >>> creating a sorted list and as search terms
> >>> Search Tags: "SearchTerm1", "SearchTermN"
> >>> Related Entries: "Glossary Entry1", "Glossary EntryN" --the see
> >>> also kind of thing
> >>>
> >>> ~Dennis
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 1, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Keith McCombs wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dennis --
> >>>> I'm still here. I've been working on a sample. Very sim ple,
> >>>> plain text, no columns, or tags. I'm trying to supply only
> >>>> enough information so someone can get an idea of what to look for
> >>>> in the documentation. Presently, I am avoiding making any
> >>>> specific reference to section or page in the manual or anywhere
> >>>> else (too much work and would change with every major AB revision.
> >>>>
> >>>> I should be posting to the group with the first twenty or so
> >>>> entries, this afternoon, US EDT.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't expect the format that I am using will be the final one
> >>>> --- its just a starting point.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for your support and comments, past, present, and future.
> >>>> -- Keith
> >>>>
> >>>> Dennis Brown wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keith,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You still with us?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I figured you would have a few things to say about the
> >>>>> formatting issues (unless you are away right now).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I consider you a critical partner in making this happen since it
> >>>>> was primarily your proposal that got it moving.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The startup is a bit messy until we get our feet planted firmly
> >>>>> on the ground.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do you think about the idea of a spreadsheet as the initial
> >>>>> form to hold the raw data during the creation phase?
> >>>>> We can kick things around in text on the list, then add to the
> >>>>> spreadsheet doc as we go.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Answer on list if appropriate for all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Dennis
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 30, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Keith McCombs wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Sounds good to me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, is there somewhere we could have a document that we
> >>>>>> could all collaborate on without the text getting all garbled
> >>>>>> up by Yahoogroups, adding carriage returns, line feeds, and >?
> >>>>>> I believe there is some way to do this -- just don't know what
> >>>>>> that way is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dennis Brown wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have moved this thread to its own topic so that it will not
> >>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>> mixed up with the other thread going forward. I have added three
> >>>>>>> replies at the top level here ~Dennis
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Peter,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe it should ultimately end up as part of the official
> >>>>>>> docs.
> >>>>>>> However, creating a separate one to start with and getting the
> >>>>>>> bugs
> >>>>>>> worked out of it would help everyone now. If it is a
> >>>>>>> successful and
> >>>>>>> useful document, then I am sure Tomasz will take note and
> >>>>>>> figure out
> >>>>>>> how to incorporate its usefulness into the AB docs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Identifying a need that does not require the brightest brains
> >>>>>>> in the
> >>>>>>> AFL world to contribute to it is a liberating experience.
> >>>>>>> Instead of
> >>>>>>> begging for someone else to solve it, ordinary and
> >>>>>>> extraordinary users
> >>>>>>> alike can make it happen in bite sized chunks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think the way to approach this is for one lead person to
> >>>>>>> take a
> >>>>>>> small section, say the first 10 items in alphabetical order
> >>>>>>> from the
> >>>>>>> functions list and take a stab at filling them out completely
> >>>>>>> and post
> >>>>>>> them here for comments. Then perhaps a few volunteers could
> >>>>>>> follow
> >>>>>>> the lead and each take the next few in sequence. And do the same
> >>>>>>> thing. This way there could be parallel efforts and feedback
> >>>>>>> in an
> >>>>>>> open way that would encourage more participation from anyone who
> >>>>>>> thinks they could do the same thing to a small set. It would
> >>>>>>> not take
> >>>>>>> too long to assembl e a good size Glossary that way --one
> >>>>>>> section at a
> >>>>>>> time.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> BR,
> >>>>>>> Dennis
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:37 PM, peterjldyke wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> > Hi,
> >>>>>>> > Would it be feasible to work on the existing manual without
> >>>>>>> re-
> >>>>>>> > writing another document? The headings and information, as
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>> > stand are already there, set out years ago by TJ and others.
> >>>>>>> What is
> >>>>>>> > lacking is a keyword search in newbie plain english. Maybe a
> >>>>>>> start
> >>>>>>> > could be made on the Function headings.
> >>>>>>> > Peter
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mike,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks. Yes that is what I meant by extracting everything from
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> docs. Those are the basics, but it does take a bit more
> >>>>>>> detective
> >>>>>>> work to make sure nothing is missed. But if a complete list is
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> easily available, then we will just have to compile it the
> >>>>>>> best we can
> >>>>>>> and fill in the blanks later. There are a number of single
> >>>>>>> character
> >>>>>>> tokens used in different contexts, like in a text field.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> BR,
> >>>>>>> Dennis
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Mike wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >> It would sure help to get started if Tomasz or someone else
> >>>>>>> has a
> >>>>>>> >> current text list of all keywords and tokens that AFL
> >>>>>>> recognizes
> >>>>>>> >> to get started with -- that way nothing would be missed and
> >>>>>>> it is
> >>>>>>> >> just adding info to each one.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > The existing documentation offers this.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > http://www.amibroker.com/guide/a_language.html
> >>>>>>> > http://www.amibroker.com/guide/a_keywords.html
> >>>>>>> > http://www.amibroker.com/guide/afl/afl_index.php?m=1
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Keith,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You did such a good job explaining your proposal, would you
> >>>>>>> like to
> >>>>>>> take the first 10 to get us started?
> >>>>>>> The functions list is easy in some respects because it is
> >>>>>>> already half
> >>>>>>> way there. But the one line definitions would likely want to
> >>>>>>> be a bit
> >>>>>>> more descriptive about its intended use. Search words might also
> >>>>>>> include a category or two so the list could return functional
> >>>>>>> groups.
> >>>>>>> The search words might be the largest part of the entry.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would be happy to assemble the whole list off line and keep it
> >>>>>>> updated as we work through the total and publish it in an
> >>>>>>> acceptable
> >>>>>>> form, and try to keep the momentum going --unless someone else
> >>>>>>> wants
> >>>>>>> that role.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can think of some other projects that could be handled the
> >>>>>>> same way
> >>>>>>> that would be of general help to all if this effort is
> >>>>>>> successful.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Test group:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> #include - preprocessor include command (AFL 2.2)
> >>>>>>> #include_once - prep rocessor include (once) command (AFL 2.70)
> >>>>>>> #pragma - sets AFL pre-processor option (AFL 2.4)
> >>>>>>> abs - absolute value
> >>>>>>> AccDist - accumulation/distribution
> >>>>>>> acos - arccosine function
> >>>>>>> AddColumn - add numeric exploration column (AFL 1.8)
> >>>>>>> AddTextColumn - add text exploration column (AFL 1.8)
> >>>>>>> AddToComposite - add value to composite ticker (AFL 2.0)
> >>>>>>> ADLine - advance/decline line (AFL 1.2)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>> Dennis
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> > From: Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx>
> >>>>>>> > Date: August 29, 2008 6:02:30 PM EDT
> >>>>>>> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
> >>>>>>> > oldies, ... and AmiBroker ...
> >>>>>>> > Reply-To: amibroker@xxx oogroups.com
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Keith,
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Thanks for rescuing my post from the oblivion of the chaos
> >>>>>>> that came
> >>>>>>> > after it.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > I like your more detailed suggestion and yes we are talking
> >>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>> > the same thing. From a practical point, this is not
> >>>>>>> something that
> >>>>>>> > one person should have to take on by themselves -- it could be
> >>>>>>> > overwhelming. This is perfect for a collaborative effort
> >>>>>>> initially,
> >>>>>>> > but would require a Wiki sort of thing to do that in the
> >>>>>>> broadest
> >>>>>>> > sense. Once it is all pieced together, it would not be too
> >>>>>>> hard to
> >>>>>>> > maintain in the UKB or in another way. Perhaps a text file
> >>>>>>> could be
> >>>>>>> > uploaded with the partial document and "checked out" to be
> >>>>>>> worked
> >>>>>>> > on. Eventually it would be complete enough to post as a good
> >>>>>>> > resource, but of course would have to be updated regularly
> >>>>>>> as AFL
> >>>>>>> > evolves.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > I think my extension to this is that I would like to see the
> >>>>>>> entries > link to the place in the documentation tha t defines
> >>>>>>> them, or
> >>>>>>> > perhaps an auto search for references in the docs. Not clear
> >>>>>>> to me
> >>>>>>> > yet what would be the most helpful if they are not
> >>>>>>> integrated into
> >>>>>>> > the official docs.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > It would sure help to get started if Tomasz or someone else
> >>>>>>> has a
> >>>>>>> > current text list of all keywords and tokens that AFL
> >>>>>>> recognizes to
> >>>>>>> > get started with -- that way nothing would be missed and it
> >>>>>>> is just
> >>>>>>> > adding info to each one.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Otherwise, like you said, the first job to piece them
> >>>>>>> together from
> >>>>>>> > the various places in the docs.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Any other ideas about how to make this a reality without
> >>>>>>> killing one
> >>>>>>> > person?
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Best regards,
> >>>>>>> > Dennis
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On Aug 29, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Keith McCombs wrote:
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >> Dennis --
> >>>>>>> >> Your comments below reminded me of something I've always
> >>>>>>> wanted for
> >>>>>>> >> AFL. You called it an "AFL to English Dictionary ", while I
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> >> thinking "Glossary". But, I believe, we may be looking for
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> >> same thing.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Many times I knew what I wanted but couldn't find it in the
> >>>>>>> help
> >>>>>>> >> documentation just because I didn't know what AB called it.
> >>>>>>> For
> >>>>>>> >> example, when I first wanted to plot multiple or different
> >>>>>>> or other
> >>>>>>> >> equities, all on the same chart, I was pretty sure that it
> >>>>>>> could be
> >>>>>>> >> done but had a hard time figuring out how. It was quite a
> >>>>>>> while
> >>>>>>> >> ago, so I'm not sure exactly how I tried to solve the
> >>>>>>> problem. But
> >>>>>>> >> I probably opened up Help and did a Search for 'multiple',
> >>>>>>> >> 'different', 'other', or 'many'. Somehow, eventually, I
> >>>>>>> discovered
> >>>>>>> >> the 'foreign' function, which, by the way, took me longer
> >>>>>>> than to
> >>>>>>> >> write and debug my final code.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Had there been an "AFL to English Dictionary" or 'Glossary'
> >>>>>>> with an
> >>>>>>> >> entry like,
> >>>>>>> >> "foreign( ) -- refers to symbols other primary symb ol.
> >>>>>>> Search -
> >>>>>>> >> different, many, multiple, other."
> >>>>>>> >> it would have been of great help at the time.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Another hard one, at least for me, to come up with on my own,
> >>>>>>> >> "AddToComposite() -- used to create composite indicators.
> >>>>>>> >> Search - different, index, indicator, many, multiple, other.
> >>>>>>> >> and
> >>>>>>> >> "ATC -- abbreviation for AddToComposite."
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Note: Making such a glossary should not be very difficult. It
> >>>>>>> >> would consist of:
> >>>>>>> >> 1. Make a list of all the keywords, functions, and other
> >>>>>>> useful
> >>>>>>> >> terms in AFL.
> >>>>>>> >> 2. Add very brief description for each. Best done by users
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> >> 'intermediate' experience.
> >>>>>>> >> 3. Add Search words. Best done dynamically by newer users,
> >>>>>>> >> especially those who had difficulty finding the particular
> >>>>>>> keyword
> >>>>>>> >> or function.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> This could be a very useful addition to the UKB.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Oh yes,
> >>>>>>> >> "Users Knowledge Base -- very helpfu l "how to" articles by
> >>>>>>> >> users. http://www.amibroker.org/userkb/glossary
> >>>>>>> >> Search - user, more, help, tutorial.
> >>>>>>> >> and
> >>>>>>> >> "UKB -- abbreviation for Users Knowledge Base."
> >>>>>>> >> and
> >>>>>>> >> "AFL -- abbreviation for AmiBroker Formula Language."
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> BTW, given such a 'Glossary' or 'AFL to English
> >>>>>>> Dictionary', I see
> >>>>>>> >> no need for an "English to AFL Dictionary". Just search for
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> >> English word that you think might lead you in the right
> >>>>>>> direction.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> -- Keith
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Dennis Brown wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> Ron, and other posters to this thread,
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> This is a good example of where some of the problems in
> >>>>>>> >>> understandin g come from. AFL is cryptic and concise. It
> >>>>>>> takes a
> >>>>>>> >>> good long while to make the connection between a natural
> >>>>>>> language
> >>>>>>> >>> expression of the desired result and the AFL to say the same
> >>>>>>> >>> thing. I had ask for an AFL to English dictionary. You and
> >>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>> >>> posters are asking for an English to AFL phrase book. I
> >>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>> >>> like that idea. There are a large number of one liners
> >>>>>>> that are
> >>>>>>> >>> very useful and are great at teaching how things work in
> >>>>>>> AFL. How
> >>>>>>> >>> many times have I seen a question for "How do I plot a
> >>>>>>> vertical
> >>>>>>> >>> line at x?" or "How do I change the background color by
> >>>>>>> bar to
> >>>>>>> >>> indicate some indicator condition?". Almost the kind of
> >>>>>>> thing
> >>>>>>> >>> that could make up an AFL FAQ section. This seems like one
> >>>>>>> of the
> >>>>>>> >>> things the UKB was created to handle. However, each item
> >>>>>>> is too
> >>>>>>> >>> small to warrant a wh ole UKB article in itself. The TOC
> >>>>>>> >>> structure is not set up for that IMO. However, having a
> >>>>>>> dozen one
> >>>>>>> >>> liners about plotting, etc., in one subject would be very
> >>>>>>> >>> helpful. Just the fact that a number of question would be
> >>>>>>> >>> answered under one general heading makes i t more likely
> >>>>>>> that a new
> >>>>>>> >>> user would find the answer to the thing he wanted quickly.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> I am hearing so many good ideas on this and similar
> >>>>>>> threads in the
> >>>>>>> >>> last couple of days from new and old hands.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> I am a great fan of "Cheat Sheets". Condensation of all key
> >>>>>>> >>> points to a subject on one page. There are many areas of
> >>>>>>> AFL that
> >>>>>>> >>> could fit into this model.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> Of course the problem with the UKB is that each article
> >>>>>>> has to
> >>>>>>> >>> have an owner who is responsible to input and update its
> >>>>>>> content.
> >>>>>>> >>> There are also some barriers to becoming a UKB author. Not
> >>>>>>> big
> >>>>>>> >>> ones, but just big enough to keep busy people from
> >>>>>>> crossing over.
> >>>>>>> >>> &n bsp;One suggestion was made to have AB support help out
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> >>> that so there would be an easy as email way to make a
> >>>>>>> contrib
> >>>>>>> >>> ution for these snippets. Support already has offered to
> >>>>>>> post
> >>>>>>> >>> articles for authors, but I think it is stil l a barrier
> >>>>>>> to have to
> >>>>>>> >>> write a "complete" article to post anything. Adding to an
> >>>>>>> article
> >>>>>>> >>> that is already structured with a small think like people
> >>>>>>> post
> >>>>>>> >>> hers would not be so daunting.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> I think it is a great idea to have a topic related AFL
> >>>>>>> phrase
> >>>>>>> >>> book. Of course it would also be appropriate for any UKB
> >>>>>>> author
> >>>>>>> >>> to put up his hand and say he will sign up to maintain a
> >>>>>>> >>> particular topic UKB entry for the phrase book.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> Perhaps if a few of us could take a topic and get the ball
> >>>>>>> >>> rolling, others would join in. The idea is that instead of
> >>>>>>> >>> writing a UKB article, you just email a snippet to the
> >>>>>>> responsible
> >>>>>>> >>> person to add it to the article.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> This list itself could be used to vet things first to
> >>>>>>> reduce the
> >>>>>>> >>> editing of completed articles. That way someone would not
> >>>>>>> have to
> >>>>>>> >>> be an expert to maintain one topic.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> If severa l people like this basic idea, the we could
> >>>>>>> expand the
> >>>>>>> >>> concept and create an outline for the subjects.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> Should we start organizing the topics for a phrase book?
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> It is one thing to complain, another to suggest
> >>>>>>> improvements, and
> >>>>>>> >>> still another to be willing to contribute to the
> >>>>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> What do people think of this idea, and contributing to it?
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>> >>> Dennis
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 3:13 PM, <professor@xxx> <professor@xxx
> >>>>>>> >>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> Ron,
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> The examples that you used were perfect. Even I could
> >>>>>>> understand
> >>>>>>> >>>> how they worked and learn how to do things that I wanted
> >>>>>>> to do
> >>>>>>> >>>> but didn't know how to do it. I spent a lot of time using
> >>>>>>> >>>> barssince and ref trying accomplish this.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> >>>> Tom
> >>>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> >>>> From: Ronald Davis
> >>>>>>> >>>> To: amibroker@xxx oogroups.com
> >>>>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:36 AM
> >>>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
> >>>>>>> >>>> oldies, ... and AmiBroker ...
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> In the very early days of my Amibroker learning curve,
> >>>>>>> The best
> >>>>>>> >>>> help that I
> >>>>>>> >>>> received was from this board when an experienced user was
> >>>>>>> kind
> >>>>>>> >>>> enough to
> >>>>>>> >>>> quickly code an example or what I was asking.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> Then, I would play with what they had given me, and I
> >>>>>>> started to
> >>>>>>> >>>> understand
> >>>>>>> >>>> how to use Amibroker.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> For example, REF(c>ref(c,2),5); says that the close that
> >>>>>>> happened
> >>>>>>> >>>> five days
> >>>>>>> >>>> ago has to be higher than the close that happened on the
> >>>>>>> sixth
> >>>>>>> >>>> day ago.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> Whereas, SUM(c>ref(c,2),5); only requires that any one or
> >>>>>>> more of
> >>>>>>> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> >>>> closes over the last five days has to be higher than the
> >>>>>>> previous
> >>>>>>> >>>> days
> >>>>>>> >>>> close.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> The above examples of simple english explanations from
> >>>>>>> this board
> >>>>>>> >>>> are how I
> >>>>>>> >>>> started l earning Amibroker. Ron D
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> >>>> From: "Ken Close" <ken45140@xxx>
> >>>>>>> >>>> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:15 PM
> >>>>>>> >>>> Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
> >>>>>>> >>>> oldies, ... and
> >>>>>>> >>>> AmiBroker ...
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Amen. Amen! AMEN!
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > While Tomasz has done so much to improve and expand the
> >>>>>>> >>>> training/manual
> >>>>>>> >>>> > since the early days (he really has!), the fact there is
> >>>>>>> >>> > continual
> >>>>>>> >>>> > questions
> >>>>>>> >>>> > on the same stuff or "small stuff", suggests there is
> >>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>> >>>> room for and
> >>>>>>> >>>> > benefit from improvement.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I am constantly reminded (or remind myself) that Tomasz
> >>>>>>> has to
> >>>>>>> >>>> say "Read
> >>>>>>> >>>> > the
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Manual". Some questions are almost obvious that a quick
> >>>>>>> trip to
> >>>>>>> >>>> help
> >>>>>>> >>>> > would
> >>>>>>> >>>> > answer the question, but o ther "simple" questions are
> >>>>>>> not.
> >>>>>>> >>>> Many of us do
> >>>>>>> >>>> > attempt to find the answers in help but cannot.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > For example, yesterday, I wanted to know how to make
> >>>>>>> >>>> subscripted arrays.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I
> >>>>>>> >>>> > did not remember that VarGet and VarSet was set up to
> >>>>>>> do this.
> >>>>>>> >>>> So a trip
> >>>>>>> >>>> > to
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Help and typing in "subscripted arrays" found 9 entries
> >>>>>>> none of
> >>>>>>> >>>> which led
> >>>>>>> >>>> > me
> >>>>>>> >>>> > to VarSet or VarGet. I think one of the improvements
> >>>>>>> would be a
> >>>>>>> >>>> search
> >>>>>>> >>>> > system which allowed more complex search logic or
> >>>>>>> strings, or
> >>>>>>> >>>> some way to
> >>>>>>> >>>> > zero in on the specific request. As Tomasz says, it is
> >>>>>>> almost
> >>>>>>> >>>> always in
> >>>>>>> >>>> > there, it just is hard to find.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Ken
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> >>>> > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Behalf
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Of Dennis Brown
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Sent: T hursday, August 28, 2008 11:58 AM
> >>>>>>> >>>> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help
> >>>>>>> newbies,
> >>>>>>> >>>> oldies, ... and
> >>>>>>> >>>> > AmiBroker ...
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Brian,
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > You are correct. I switched to AB be cause I wanted a
> >>>>>>> >>>> programming language
> >>>>>>> >>>> > that was fundamentally tied into the realtime price
> >>>>>>> arrays and
> >>>>>>> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> >>>> > charting
> >>>>>>> >>>> > for the same. RT quotes --> Database --> AFL -->
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Charts. That was all I wanted, and that is pretty much
> >>>>>>> all I use.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > There is a lot of overhead associated with getting and
> >>>>>>> >>>> maintaining the
> >>>>>>> >>>> > data,
> >>>>>>> >>>> > interacting with the user, and outputting the the data
> >>>>>>> in a
> >>>>>>> >>>> useful form.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I
> >>>>>>> >>>> > only wanted to be concerned with the algorithms that
> >>>>>>> decided to
> >>>>>>> >>>> buy or
> >>>>>>> >>>> > sell.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Interestingly, even with all the support functions
> >>>>>>> handled by
> >>>>>>> >>>> AB, I still
> >>>>>>> >>>> > spend 80% of my time coding UI things! I think it is
> >>>>>>> some kin d
> >>>>>>> >>>> of
> >>>>>>> >>>> > computer
> >>>>>>> >>>> > programming law.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > AFL was my real destination with AmiBroker, and I had a
> >>>>>>> hard
> >>>>>>> >>>> time because
> >>>>>>> >>>> > it
> >>>>>>> >>>> > was not w ell defined. A lot of assumptions were made
> >>>>>>> about prior
> >>>>>>> >>>> > knowledge
> >>>>>>> >>>> > of specific programming language conventions in C like
> >>>>>>> languages.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Languages
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I had no experience with. These are middle level
> >>>>>>> languages. My
> >>>>>>> >>>> > experience
> >>>>>>> >>>> > was with machine level assembler code, and very high
> >>>>>>> level like
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Revolution/SuperCard/HyperCard, and a
> >>>>>>> >>>> > smattering of BASIC and APL from the original versions
> >>>>>>> 40 years
> >>>>>>> >>>> ago.
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I had no idea that I was supposed to go learn C syntax
> >>>>>>> before I
> >>>>>>> >>>> could use
> >>>>>>> >>>> > the AFL documentation. IMHO this is a documentation
> >>>>>>> hole big
> >>>>>>> >>>> enough to
> >>>>>>> >>>> > drive a truck through.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Then what happens when someone has no experience with any
> >>>>>>> >>>> programming
> >>>>>>> >>>> > language at all. Perhaps some Excel experience, or maybe
> >>>>>>> >>>> experience using
> >>>>>>> >>>> > a
> >>>>>>> >>>> > programmable calculator. I c an't imagine the
> >>>>>>> bewildermen t with
> >>>>>>> >>>> AFL. It
> >>>>>>> >>>> > takes a lot of handholding from support or this list to
> >>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>> >>>> over the first
> >>>>>>> >>>> > hump.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I believe it would be appropriate to define the AFL
> >>>>>>> language in
> >>>>>>> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> >>>> > documentation as if it were the only language that
> >>>>>>> exists on
> >>>>>>> >>>> the planet.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > For instance "+" is defined as "Addition". Whereas, in
> >>>>>>> reality
> >>>>>>> >>>> the "+"
> >>>>>>> >>>> > operator is data type dependent. It will add two
> >>>>>>> numbers, add a
> >>>>>>> >>>> number to
> >>>>>>> >>>> > every element in an array, add two arrays element by
> >>>>>>> element, or
> >>>>>>> >>>> > concatenate
> >>>>>>> >>>> > two strings. It will not add a number or array to a
> >>>>>>> string.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > As I have suggested before, I would have liked to see a
> >>>>>>> >>>> "Complete"
> >>>>>>> >>>> > listing of all operators, functions, reserved words,
> >>>>>>> syntax
> >>>>>>> >>>> characters,
> >>>>>>> >>>> > directives, etc., in one live list index that points to
> >>>>>>> a page
> >>>>>>> >>>> that
> >>>>>>> >>>> > explains
> >>>>>>> >>>> > each one in the same way that the functions are now
> >>>>>>> described.
> >>>>>>> >>>> Then
> >>>>>>> >>>> > additional "see also" pointers on those pages to point
> >>>>>>> to more
> >>>>>>> >>>> in depth
> >>>>>>> >>>> > documents when available. In fact the current functions
> >>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>> >>>> could simply
> >>>>>>> >>>> > be expanded to do this.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > This would have saved me many weeks off the learning
> >>>>>>> curve.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > I don't know if Howard is planning on doing this in his
> >>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>> >>>> book, but it
> >>>>>>> >>>> > should be part of the on-line documentation.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Best regards,
> >>>>>>> >>>> > Dennis
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> > On Aug 28, 2008, at 10:34 AM, brian_z111 wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> I didn't explain myself very well there.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> What I am saying is that I think we are making it
> >>>>>>> harder by not
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> admitting that it is a programmers program and just
> >>>>>>> getting on
> >>>>>>> >>>> with
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> teaching AFL.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>> > >> If anyone held told me that at the start I would have
> >>>>>>> run for
> >>>>>>> >>>> it but
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> the fact is that the help manual is about 'AmiBroker the
> >>>>>>> >>>> program' but
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> eventually I came to realise it is all about
> >>>>>>> programming -
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> specifically AFL.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> So, if I do want to get on with it where do I go?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> The AFL section of the h elp manual is condensed.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> The first few chapters of Howards Book are a basic
> >>>>>>> intro to AB
> >>>>>>> >>>> and the
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> rest of the book is orientated around SystemDesign &
> >>>>>>> Evaluation?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Where is the next stop on the AFL line?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> brian_z
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111"
> >>>>>>> >>>> <brian_z111@> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> Herman,
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> I always figured that sticking with AFL would have
> >>>>>>> provided
> >>>>>>> >>>> a more
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> continuous path for users to develop their programming
> >>>>>>> >>>> expertise.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> This is a new point, not really discussed much
> >>>>>>> before, I think.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> I really don't know how to put it in words but you
> >>>>>>> are so
> >>>>>>> >>>> right.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> Tomasz should be proud of me because if I am a
> >>>>>>> programmer at
> >>>>>>> >>>> all I
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> am
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> an array programmer...... but sometimes I am l eft
> >>>>>>> reaching
> >>>>>>> >>>> for AFL?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> Perhaps there are co nventions that people with 2 or
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> programming
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> languages automatically understand?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> Do I have to go and learn C++ as well.
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> Should I need too?
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>> brian_z
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------
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