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Brian,
To add my two cents to this discussion:
I have experienced the frustration of searching for information.
reading dozens of posts, and not finding it. Then later I find that
the solution was there, just not called by the names I was searching
for. This goes for not just AB, but for everything, every manual,
every internet search.
I believe the problem is the way WE don't index the information in
the way we want to search for it. All the information is searched
for based on the lowest level of detail --relevant terms. However,
the way we think about information is in the opposite direction --
from fuzzy concept, through more various approaches to a problem, and
finally to a specific example that is relevant (where all those terms
reside that we did not know before).
I learn easiest by example code and a general explanation of the
concepts. However, I am often trying to do something that has not
been done publicly before, so no examples. The first hurdle in my
quest is just to find out if what I want to do has been done before.
After coming up empty on a search for the terms I can think of, I
post my problem and ask for any advice. A few times somebody points
me in the general or specific direction to solve my problem which I
am grateful for. Most of the time, however, nobody else has a clue
either and I get no helpful response. That is helpful also, because
I can stop my vain searching and start inventing a solution on my own.
With the rapid evolution and richness of AB, keeping the
documentation up to date is quite a feat. It could be organized
better with more detailed explanations of things that programmers
take for granted as common knowledge --but are not the terms and
understanding of most users. It could have a more encompassing index
into the information. However, I don't know that Tomasz or the users
are ready for him to take a year off of development just to work on
documentation organization and detailing.
As you already know the UKB is a great resource in the making (and
you are helping to make it that way). It may be the vehicle to
ultimately achieve the indexing and flushing out of helpful
information for all AB users --while allowing Tomasz to keep coding
away at that very long list of requested features.
Just food for thought.
Best regards,
Dennis Brown
On Nov 30, 2007, at 7:32 PM, brian_z111 wrote:
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <groups@xxx>
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, BUT... you truncated my original response.
>> I did not only say that it was discussed before.
>> I also wrote:
>> " See for example this:
>> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/116612
>> "
>>
>> So I also added EXACT LINK to the post that presents the solution
>> (so I did perform a search for person who asked and provided him a
> result that answers the question).
>> So I don't even expect the user to use search as I did this for
> him/her already.
>>
>> Do you expect me to copy-paste old posts instead of putting the
> link ? I hope not.
>
>
> No, of course not.
>
> No, I don't expect you to do anything other than what you perceive to
> be the right course of action. I am simply haolding a discussion with
> the purpose of exchanging information. My expectation of others is
> that they are free to accept or reject my opinions and apply (or not)
> them in any way they like.
>
> Yes, your response was above and beyond - as I said "no one can ask
> you to do more". Also, it is not a critique of you (publically and
> privately I respect you). Since it was not a critique of you I didn't
> reference your behaviour (which was exemplary anyway).
>
> I truncated your answer because I was only addressing the 'go
> search', and by implication, the 'go read the manual' mantra.
>
> I simply listed some factual observations, without drawing any
> inferences or asking anybody to do anything.
>
> I am observing:
>
> 1) That all of the information I need to learn "how to use AB",
> rather than "how to apply AB", is not in the help manual.
> 2) That the help manual contains 'out of date' material.
> 3) That a lot of helpful material, that is additional to the manual
> is available in various places BUT searching to find that material,
> with the methods at my disposal, are very inefficient (perhaps there
> are some, as yet unknown to me, methods I can use).
> 4) That "you' have asked "us" (the users) to make every effort to use
> the above resources before contacting support - to free your time for
> more productive pursuits - I 100% agree with this and anyway I am
> super proud to do it under my own steam.
> 5)The majority of AB users are in full time employment and so are
> time challenged.
> 6) It is human nature to avoid what is excessively painful, for
> little or no gain, and seek out what is pleasurable and/or returns
> hign gain.
> 7) Internet forums are "live" - solutions posted there tend to get
> lost in the 'electronic void'.
> 8)The ways in which we acquire info have changed (there is so much of
> it) - generally people are not going to read what we write because
> there is too much of it - they only want to do targetted searching
> for an answer to the now problem (and what is wrong with that? - that
> is exactly tha nature of the net and why we love it!)
> 9) Even if people do read all the material, levels and speed of
> comprehension vary - we can't help that - it is not our fault.
>
> I would like to correct myself though - the out of date material in
> the manual is the worst part of the AB experience, followed by the
> inefficient search tools.
>
> I haven't drawn any inferences from this (so far) but IYO are any of
> the above points 1-9 factually incorrect.
>
> If they are not I propose a possible conclusion:
>
> 1) "We" will never be able to control peoples behaviour - some people
> will always continue to expect others to do their "dirty" work for
> them so there is no point 'railing' against that.
>
> 2) Not every one is tarred with the same brush and a majority prefer
> to learn from the documented material without bothering anyone else
> (the forum, support) - policies should be directed towards the
> silent, and good, majority.
>
> 3) If all up to date relevant information isn't in the manual people
> will have to try elsewhere (if all the info was in the manual and it
> was easy to find there would be no need to go elsewhere except to
> discuss application, which it is not a duty of AB to teach anyway).
>
> 4) If elsewhere takes too long and doesn't return much then they only
> have two choices - email support, or ask the question here and hope
> for an answer (of course no one can expect an answer, let alone
> demand one because we are all volunteers).
>
> 5) People who post good solutions to this board can't complain if no
> one ever reads them again - they have been offered better
> alternatives.
>
> SUMMARY??????
>
> It is helpful if people provide a link, or directions where to find
> the info as an answer but saying 'read the manual' and/or 'search'
> doesn't achieve and constructive outcomes.
>
> The best solution would be not to swim against the tide of human
> nature and the times AND address the root cause of the problem.
>
> As I said before - this is a discussion point and not an expectation.
>
> Regards,
>
> brian_z
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tomasz Janeczko
>> amibroker.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxx>
>> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:51 AM
>> Subject: [amibroker] Re: help needed on adx coding.
>>
>>
>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <groups@>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It was discussed in detail before. Use search.
>>>
>>> Tomasz,
>>>
>>> No one could ask you personally to do more for us than you
> already do
>>> so I am not complaininhg or criticizing. I would, however, like
> to
>>> put forward another perspective on this issue of searching.
>>>
>>> Many times you and others say - "it has been discussed before
> many
>>> times and search the board".
>>>
>>> It is true that often people are more enthusiastic about getting
>>> others to help than they are about helping themselves but please
>>> consider this:
>>>
>>> 1) I am not one of them and IMO finding the information we need
>>> (assuming it is 100% there in the first place) is absolutely the
>>> worst part of the Amibroker experience.
>>>
>>> 2) I wasn't here before. That's not my fault - just life's
>>> coincidence.
>>> I can't possibly read every message from the past - anyway many
>>> things have changed and a lot of the info is out of context or
>>> redundant so it is a long search for an occasional gem.
>>>
>>> 3) I am researching for some answers on Amiquote at the moment,
> to
>>> add some detail on the subject to the UKB. I got thousands of
> hits
>>> under AmiQuote, when searching this forum, but most of them are
>>> irrelevant because it appears that in the past a link with
> Amiquote
>>> in it was at the bottom of all messages. So in the end I just
>>> searched "Tomasz" and "AmiQuote current" for 549 messages (that
> is
>>> not thorough research but it will have to do - I now that the
> info I
>>> want is in a post by Dimitri but that is another day or two out
> of my
>>> life to search all Dimitris Yahoo posts). So far it has taken me
> 2
>>> hours to read the first 50 messages (the search doesn't return
>>> a 'true' thread so I have to manually manage the jump from search
> to
>>> topic to thread and back for every single one (don't think I
> don't
>>> feel like throwing in the towel either because the end gain will
> be
>>> very small but stubborness has it's uses).
>>>
>>> 4) I wasn't around when Fred first posted his answer the first
> time.
>>> I did notice the recent post.
>>> I didn't answer because I have other duties to meet beside
> helping in
>>> the forum.
>>>
>>> If I wanted to find that post again (and I knew it was there and
>>> that it was by Fred) how hard would that be? How much harder
> would
>>> it be if the person 'on the hunt' didn't have that prior info?
> Near
>>> impossible. What would they search for? "Generalized Price
> Required
>>> to Meet am Indicator Goal".
>>>
>>> 5) I have tried everything to make my searching easierm including
>>> PGOffline which had unresolved glitches on my computer.
>>>
>>> It doesn't get any better when I search the Ami homepage and
> Googling
>>> Ami.com or Ami.net isn't a barrel of laughs either.
>>>
>>> So, I am not looking for an argument.
>>> I have just put my point up on the board against yours.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> brian_z
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> See for example this:
>>>> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/116612
>>>>
>>>> and the entire thread.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Tomasz Janeczko
>>>> amibroker.com
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Prashant Nayak" <pnayak@>
>>>> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:32 PM
>>>> Subject: [amibroker] Re: help needed on adx coding.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bit dissapointed, nobody comming forward to help a person
> stuck
>>> with
>>>>> the coding.
>>>>>
>>>>> is it really uncodeable ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Prashant
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Prashant Nayak" <pnayak@>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi friend,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> even this does not work. Seniors please help to rectify this
>>> code
>>>>> or
>>>>>> a new code please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tomas, pls help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pras
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "vichooo_1999"
> <vichooo_1999@>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think u r looking for a forecaster which gives a value at
>>> which
>>>>>> +DI
>>>>>>> will cross -DI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try the following
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P0 = C;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acc = 0.0001;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LVBI = LastValue(BarIndex());
>>>>>>> Mult = 1;
>>>>>>> for (i = 0; i < 10; i++)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> if (P0[LVBI] >= 1)
>>>>>>> i = 99;
>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>> Mult = Mult * 10;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>> // ***********************************************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P1 = Ref(P0, 1) * Mult;
>>>>>>> UpDn = 100 * P1[LVBI];
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for (i = 0; i < 200; i++)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Calc = PDI();
>>>>>>> Calc = MDI();
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Goal = LastValue(cross(PDI(),MDI()));
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if (Calc[LVBI] < Goal)
>>>>>>> P1[LVBI] = P1[LVBI] + UpDn;
>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>> P1[LVBI] = P1[LVBI] - UpDn;
>>>>>>> UpDn = UpDn / 2;
>>>>>>> if (UpDn <= Acc)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> j = i;
>>>>>>> i = 99999;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Accuracy = 100 * (abs(Goal - Calc) / Goal);
>>>>>>> Filter = BarIndex() == LVBI;
>>>>>>> AddColumn(Ref(P1, -1) / Mult, "Todays Price", 1.2);
>>>>>>> AddColumn(P1 / Mult, "Goal Price", 1.2);
>>>>>>> AddColumn(P0-P1 , "Goal Price diff", 1.2);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tyr and see if it works. I f it does not then some
> seniorguys
>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> rectify the code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "wavemechanic" <fimdot@>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A starting point is the folder in the Files section
> titled
>>>>> "Cross
>>>>>>> Predictions"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Prashant Nayak" <pnayak@>
>>>>>>>> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:38 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [amibroker] Re: help needed on adx coding.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Prashanth, but valuewhen syntax will not work
> here.
>>>>> what
>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> need to code for a adx forecaster which gives out the
>>> price
>>>>> at
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> it will become a buy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pls help me code a forecaster for adx.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Prashant
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Prashanth"
>>> <prash454.ta@>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have you checked out "Valuewhen" Syntax.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Prashanth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Prashant Nayak
>>>>>>>>>> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [amibroker] Re: help needed on adx coding.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I look forward to your help pls.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pras
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Prashant
>>>>> Nayak" <pnayak@>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would highly appreciate if anybody can help me
> on
>>> the
>>>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>> issue,
>>>>>>>>>>> as i am otherwise stuck on my coding.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Prashant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Prashant
>>>>>> Nayak" <pnayak@>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am trying to code adx explorer on crossover,
> but
>>>>> need
>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> how to determine the price at which +di will
> cross -
>>> di
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appreciate help on the same from experts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Prashant
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please note that this group is for discussion between
>>> users
>>>>>> only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail
>>> directly
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always
> check
>>>>>> DEVLOG:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For other support material please check also:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.1/1140 -
> Release
>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>> 11/19/2007 7:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note that this group is for discussion between users
> only.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly
> to
>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>>>>>
>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check
> DEVLOG:
>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>>>>>
>>>>> For other support material please check also:
>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>>>
>>> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>>>
>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>>>
>>> For other support material please check also:
>>> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
For other support material please check also:
http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
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