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Understnad ? ... Yes I understand completly ... Thanks ...
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@xxxx>
wrote:
> You don't understand. It will show % gain/loss of PORTFOLIO
exactly IN LINE
> with their "account balances"
> and this is what the report shows in CAR/RAR and all other
portfolio-level measures.
>
> Single TRADE % profit/loss is something different. The way
AmIBroker handles
> it has distinct advantage when it comes to setting stops as stops
directly
> represent price movement and have 1-1 correspondence to profit if
calculated
> the way it is now in AmiBroker regardless of margin used.
>
> Best regards,
> Tomasz Janeczko
> amibroker.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx>
> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:11 PM
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
>
>
> > Oh I know ... That suggests that there is no difference in %
> > Gain/Loss regardless of whether or not margin is used. Most
peoples
> > account balances would tell them something quite different.
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
<amibroker@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> >> Yes, you are right and this is exactly the difference between
> > _portfolio_ profit and
> >> _trade_ profit in AmiBroker.
> >>
> >> _Portfolio_ % profit uses EQUITY (so it is subject to leverage)
as
> > base of calculations.
> >> _Trade_ % profit uses entry value (#shares * price) as base of
> > calculations.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tomasz Janeczko
> >> amibroker.com
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx>
> >> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:52 PM
> >> Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
> >>
> >>
> >> > The definition of Equity is correct but the example was badly
> >> > worded ...
> >> >
> >> > What I should have said was ... There is no additional EQUITY
by
> >> > utilizing additional buying power but investing the same
dollar
> >> > amount because although assets increase, liabilities do as
well
> > i.e.
> >> > whether leverage is 1x or 100x, EQUITY is the same until
market
> >> > value changes. When market value changes EQUITY will be
> > impacted
> >> > 100x as much with leverage of 100x whether that be up or
down.
> >> >
> >> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx>
wrote:
> >> >> I'd agree that buying power is twice, but NOT equity.
Equity
> > is
> >> >> defined as the difference between the market value of a
> > property
> >> > and
> >> >> the claims held against it. If this were not true then I
could
> >> > have
> >> >> enjoyed having 10x the equity at the time of my last home
> > purchase
> >> > by
> >> >> buying a home for 10x as much and taking out a mortgage that
> > was
> >> > 10x
> >> >> as much.
> >> >>
> >> >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
> >> > <amibroker@xxxx>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > [amibroker] Re: Script and Stockconsultant websiteHello,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Just a few posts ago I think I expressed clearly what is
> > needed
> >> >> when contacting support:
> >> >> >
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86456
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sending screenshot alone means nothing to me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Since you do NOT provide all necessary details (formula,
> >> > settings)
> >> >> that are needed to analyse
> >> >> > the case you are giving me NO CHANCE to know what you have
> > done
> >> > to
> >> >> obtain results.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _ASSUMING_ that this is the same case as Bert reported
> > earlier
> >> >> (comparing results obtained
> >> >> > with ^RUT with 50% margin with results obtained with UAPIX
> >> > without
> >> >> margin,
> >> >> > I can say that numbers ARE correct.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can copy-paste response which I sent to him with exact
> >> >> calculations explaining why:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 1 ===
> >> >> > In this example
> >> >> > we assume the following: that UAPIX movements are exactly
2x
> > the
> >> >> movement of ^RUT
> >> >> > (so there is exact 2x leverage between them). (Note that
> > this
> >> >> assumption may not be true in
> >> >> > reality and is used for illustration purposes only)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > say UAPIX moves from 23.77 to 24.77 (+4.2%) and your
initial
> >> > equity
> >> >> is
> >> >> > 23770 so you purchase 1000 shares. Your profit is $1000
and
> >> > percent
> >> >> profit is +4.2%
> >> >> >
> >> >> > At the same time ^RUT moves 2.1% from 638.67 to 652.10.
> >> >> > Now your cash amount is the same as in previous case 23770
> > but
> >> > you
> >> >> are on
> >> >> > 50% margin so your buying power is twice as much 2*23770 =
> > 47540.
> >> >> > So you can purchase 74.4359 shares (for simplicity
> >> >> > in the example we assume that fractional purchases are
> > possible)
> >> >> > Your dollar profit is (652.10-638.67) * 74.4359 = $1000
> > (approx
> >> > due
> >> >> to rounding) - the same
> >> >> > as in first case.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Your PERCENT profit is however:
> >> >> > $1000 / $47540 = 2.1%
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is so because in second case you had to buy shares
for
> >> > $47540
> >> >> > while in first case you only spent $23770.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you want expectancy to be the same in both cases you
> > should
> >> > not
> >> >> use
> >> >> > percent profits but dollar profits instead.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 2 ===
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When you use leveraged instrument BOTH % profit and dollar
> >> > profit
> >> >> are twice
> >> >> > because PERCENT is based on SMALLER EQUITY VALUE.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / EQUITY = TWICE normal % profit
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you use magin account PERCENT PROFIT is calculated from
> >> > HIGHER
> >> >> EQUITY VALUE.
> >> >> > When use 50% margin account your EQUITY is TWICE your cash.
> >> >> > So even if DOLLAR GAIN is twice, PERCENT GAIN is the SAME
> >> > because
> >> >> equity (buying power)
> >> >> > is TWICE.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / ( 2 * EQUITY ) = DOLLAR GAIN /
EQUITY =
> >> >> normal % profit
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is so because on margin account you actually purchase
> > TWICE
> >> >> the original amount
> >> >> > and your dollar profit is also twice as much. But those
2/2
> >> > reduce
> >> >> and % profit remains the same.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you are using leveraged instrument, things are quite
> >> > different:
> >> >> > you invest only HALF the amount you would invest on margin
> >> > account,
> >> >> yet dollar profits are the same.
> >> >> > Hence percent profit is double.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > =====
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best regards,
> >> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> >> > amibroker.com
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: Fred Tonetti
> >> >> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:58 AM
> >> >> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Looks like the attachment didn't make it in the previous
> > post .
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > TJ,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Really ? Maybe we don't understand the statistics . See
> > the
> >> >> attachment. Same system on both sides traded without margin
on
> >> > the
> >> >> left, with margin on the right.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Should:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Avg Profit/Loss% in ALL TRADES Section
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Avg Profit % in WINNERS Section
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Max Trade% Drawdown
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > be the same ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If so can you please explain ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks, Fred
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Follow up: I have made a check to verify your report
about
> >> > avg.
> >> >> profit/loss
> >> >> > and all I can say is that I can not confirm your
> > observations.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best regards,
> >> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> >> > amibroker.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@>
> >> >> > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:51 PM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> >> > Vacation, "rude"
> >> >> or what??
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Hello,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I have forwarded your message to Marcin for checking
in
> >> > detail.
> >> >> > > One thing is sure that we do not "selectively decide"
> > what
> >> >> issues to respond
> >> >> > to.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I have quickly checked the issue you mentioned and you
> > don't
> >> >> ask any question
> >> >> > in it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > All I can see are some thoghts/observations.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Best regards,
> >> >> > > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> >> > > amibroker.com
> >> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > > From: "bistrader" <bistrader@>
> >> >> > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:35 PM
> >> >> > > Subject: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> >> > Vacation, "rude"
> >> >> or what??
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >>I find it disturbing that AmiBroker Support
selectively
> >> > decides
> >> >> what
> >> >> > >> issues it wants to respond to. I have talked to
several
> > in
> >> > our
> >> >> > >> FastTrack group that send emails to AmiBroker Support
> > and
> >> > even
> >> >> Tomasz
> >> >> > >> asking for help. Oh sure, they get the standard
message
> >> > saying
> >> >> that
> >> >> > >> a response will be provided within 24 hours but they
> > never
> >> >> hear a
> >> >> > >> thing on what they consider to be critical items. One
> > might
> >> >> ask, why
> >> >> > >> is AmiBroker Support and even Tomasz being so
selective
> > in
> >> >> what they
> >> >> > >> repond to? I, for one, have no idea.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> I certainly hope that this does not continue. I
really
> > like
> >> > the
> >> >> > >> software and the response by AmiBroker prior to these
> >> > string
> >> >> of cases
> >> >> > >> has been quite good.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> In any case, I hope it changes. I saw a message
recently
> >> > where
> >> >> > >> someone on this board implied that someone else was
> > being
> >> >> rude. Is
> >> >> > >> it "rude" when one tells you that a response will be
> >> > provided
> >> >> and
> >> >> > >> none ever is? Is it "rude" when someone does not
respond
> >> > even
> >> >> when
> >> >> > >> repeated requests are made. I hope not. I would
rather
> >> > think
> >> >> that
> >> >> > >> he/she just got caught up in the moment. An
oversight,
> > if
> >> > you
> >> >> will.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> So, if interested, think about responding to request
> > 22642
> >> >> originally
> >> >> > >> sent to AmiBroker on September 12th and then again on
> >> > September
> >> >> > >> 18th. Try to be nice as we should all practice what
we
> >> > preach.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> > ---
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
> > users.
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> >> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> >> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> > ---
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
> > users.
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> >> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> >> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Please note that this group is for discussion between
users
> >> > only.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail
> > directly
> >> > to
> >> >> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For other support material please check also:
> >> >> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > SPONSORED LINKS Investment management software Real
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
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> >> > ---
> >> >> ----------
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> >> >> >
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> >> >> >
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> > ---
> >> > ---
> >> >> ----------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
only.
> >> >
> >> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly
to
> >> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >> >
> >> > For other support material please check also:
> >> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
> >
> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >
> > For other support material please check also:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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