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Does not make any sense to be with Fidelity, while they have traders
checking who is doing what and use it for proprietary trading
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Ervi" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 10/20/2004 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker vs Wealth-Lab
Hi,
I'm still around, and probably much more active with AmiBroker than I have
ever been. The acquisition of Wealth-Lab by Fidelity tipped the scales back
to Amibroker for me. I've been porting all my WLD systems and DLLs back to
AmiBroker. Now that AmiBroker supports automated trading, at least in beta
format, I have no compelling reason to stay with WLD, and many reasons not
to.
However, I will still miss a few things from the WLD platform:
- Better graphics support. This means the Windows Device Context drawing
add-in API, along with all the easy WealthScript DrawCircle, DrawHorzLine,
DrawText, DrawRectangle, DrawTriangle, etc, functions. All my addin DLLs
used the Windows API directly, which was the single biggest hurdle for me in
porting my material back to AmiBroker. Having this available would allow
such a rich set of drawing features to be made available, the platform would
truly become unlimited. LineArray() helped, but it allocates a complete
array for each trendline I draw in my pattern DLL routines, which slows
things down. Tomasz has promised this in a future release, and he does keep
his promises so I am happy to make do in the mean time.
- Position management functions - I'm guessing this would be tough to
implement in AmiBroker as it might require changes to the backtester, but
from a traders viewpoint it really does simplify how we code our systems.
PositionBasisPrice, PositionMAE, PositionEntryPrice, PositionActive,
PositionExitBar, PositionProfit, etc, really make evaluating a trade simple,
and you don't have to remember the boolean state of your system. Scaled
exits with SplitPosition was a bonus too.
- Separate position sizing scripts. I loved this feature most!!! It made
it so simple to code five or six different MM schemes (Volatility, % risk,
Round lots, Streaks, etc.) and then apply it to any system simply by
clicking. The influence that MM can have on a system is phenomenal, and I
still think WLD is the undeniably best way of exploring this. AmiBroker is
capable of all the same tests, but your MM and trading scripts are tied
together in the same AFL. If you write a new script you need to integrate
all your MM code again, or maybe build an #include hierarchy for it. It is
doable, but point and click it much easier, and allowed for rapid evaluation
of different schemes...
Having addressed what *I feel* are AmiBrokers shortfalls, there are so many
features that I missed, that I have rediscovered:
- I missed how FAST Amibroker is. My pattern engine can blow through 100's
of stocks in just seconds. WLD with the same pattern engine, would take 5-7
minutes for a scan of 25 patterns against 500 stocks.
- I missed AFL brevity. Testing new ideas is so quick using AFL.
- I missed the Plugin API. Given this will only appeal to programmers, but
it is such a joy to use with the syntax highlighting and tight integration.
Now that I can use my Delphi code via the API I am a very happy camper!
- I missed the native AddToComposite feature. This is the best
implementation of such a feature I've seen in any package I've ever used.
- There is more, but I don't want this to sound like a commercial...
I'd suggest trying the Amibroker package out. Go back and read some of the
posts here, maybe try some of the AFL systems posted at
http://www.amibroker.com, talk to a few other users, and then form your own
opinion. We all use the package differently, much like we all trade systems
differently. What works for me might not be a fit for you.
If you don't have any software whatsoever, at $129.00/$199.00, nothing can
touch Amibroker. I compare WLD and AB only because I already own both. If
I had to buy only one again, AB is simply a much better deal.
Daniel
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:37:18 -0000, virtuouz_pagan wrote:
>
>
> daniel,
> if you are still around. i would very much value your evaluation on
> the latest version of Amibroker or any other software.
>
> currently i have used WLD, NeoTicker and to lesser degree,
> AmiBroker. WLD i am most familiar with, but with fidelity taking
> over..time to move on. NeoTicker is very powerful, but support and
> user community is very lacking.
> that leaves AmiBroker, which i am hoping you can give an update
> on...
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Daniel Ervi <daniel@xxxx> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the late reply, but I missed this thread.
>>
>> I own both AmiBroker and Wealth-Lab, and have used, and still use,
>>
> both pretty extensively. Below are the pro's and cons for each,
> based *on my usage* of them and their suitability to my needs.
> Please don't flame me, as this is based on my perceptions, and
> yours will probably differ. :)
>
>>
>> Amibroker Pro's:
>>
>> - Fast. Incredibly fast!
>> - Automation interface is very complete, and Plugin API is
>>
> excellent
>> - Built in Composite support.
>> - Great for rapid indicator/system testing because of the simple
>>
> array notation
>> - The latest betas have portfolio testing which is truly necessary
>>
> IMHO
>> - Excellent support, with thorough answers within hours
>> - The community following (this list) is a great resource for
>>
> newbies of both trading and programming
>> - The third-party addins add some really great features and most
>>
> are free
>> - Tick-by-tick updates of indicators is great for monitor systems
>>
> in an auto-trading environment
>> - I prefer the C++-style syntax over the Delphi syntax
>>
>>
>> Amibroker Con's:
>>
>> - No Quote.Com support. I know the developers API is expensive,
>>
> but Quote.com is the only data provider to supply > 120 days of
> historical 1 min data and unlimited symbols. It goes back to 1997
> for most stocks and indexes on a 1 min basis. I have >10 gigs of 1
> min data for the SP500 components at my disposal thanks to
> Quote.com.
>
>> - Limited drawing support. What is here is great, but there are a
>>
> few things that would make it superb. Being able to plot a
> triangle or box would allow one to plot Gartley's or highlight
> trades with a green or red box based on whether they made a profit
> or not, or maybe highlight the opening range in orange until it is
> over. Changing background colors would allow gradients to show a
> condition getting better or worse. You get the idea...
>
>> - No position management functions. I find it harder to program
>>
> systems when you rely on a simple boolean on/off for entry/exit
> signals. In WL, once a position is created, you can use position-
> based functions like PositionEntryBar() or PositionActive() or
> PositionMFE() to loop through a collection of positions and apply
> simple tests/exits to them. Multiple concurrent position systems
> are greatly simplified this way as trade management is done on a
> trade by trade basis. FWIW, this would eliminate the need for
> functions like ExRem().
>
>> - No native class/object support. This can be done via the API,
>>
> so it's not that big a deal. But for complex scripts (ie a native
> AFL genetic algorithm implementation via includes) this would be a
> life-saver.
>
>> - No auto-trading interface/API. This for me is the biggest
>>
> reason I have WL.
>> - Position Sizing algorithms needs to be done via your script. WL
>>
> allows you to separate the Positions Sizing from the trade
> entry/exit scripts. This makes it easy to try various position
> sizing algorithms without the need to change any code.
>
>> - No built in debugger (ie breakpoints, etc)
>>
>>
>> Wealth-Lab Pro's:
>>
>> - Native auto-trading with attached portfolio management. This
>>
> was implemented really well because of the attached portfolio, and
> I have used it with over 20 positions auto-trading at once on a 5
> min timeframe. It didn't miss a beat.
>
>> - Rich set of graphics features. I have some pretty advanced
>>
> plots that highlight all types of scenario's during the trading day.
>
>> - Built in debugger, with breakpoints and the ability to look at
>>
> variable contents
>> - API's available for most areas of the program, including a
>>
> broker interface
>> - Language is based on Delphi/Pascal (OOP) and allows for
>>
> classes/inheritance/polymorphism/etc.
>> - Ability to download new "chartscripts" (systems, indicators,
>>
> etc) via a menu option. This is a great *built-in* repository for
> those starting out, or for those looking to explore other ideas.
> Simply refresh the system by choosing "download chartscripts" from
> the menu.
>
>> - Position Sizing is a separate script. Once you see the
>>
> difference that position sizing can have on a strategy, this
> feature becomes critical. You can apply any sizing strategy during
> system ranking/optimization/portfolio simulations/etc. This can
> dramatically change the results of these methods.
>
>> - Custom optimization fitness functions. You can program an
>>
> expectancy function and use it as your optimization criteria for
> example.
>
>> - Full suite of position management functions.
>>
>>
>> Wealth-Lab Con's:
>>
>> - Slow. Molasses slow compared to AB. If you have greater than
>>
> 100,000 bars, forget about it.
>> - Indicators don't update on tick intervals. The last price bar
>>
> (aka ghost bar) does, but nothing else.
>> - Plugin API is based on COM (slower) and doesn't allow for native
>>
> syntax-highlighting
>> - You can't import ASCII files to a faster native binary format.
>>
> So every system test you run has to re-parse the data, which can
> slow you down dramatically on large datasets.
>
>> - Simple/Rapid indicator and system development is slower compared
>>
> to AB. The Metastock-style array notation in AB is a huge
> timesaver. There are wizards in WL3 to help with this, but I still
> find the process cumbersome compared to AB/MS.
>
>> - You can't auto-trade on less than 1 minute bars. It would have
>>
> been nice to trade the ES or NQ on tick bars, but it can't be done
> yet.
>>
>>
>> These are *my* impressions on the two packages. I use AB whenever
>>
> I need to rapidly test an idea, or if I am trying to run a test on
> a large set of data. I then move to WL to refine the ideas, apply
> position sizing, and then deploy them via the auto-trading. So for
> me at least, the two complement each other very well.
>
>>
>> Hope I don't stir up any trouble with this post. I just wanted to
>>
> stress that both packages have there place, and although AB is
> great in it's current state, there is always room for improvement.
> Or else TJ would have retired ages ago, right TJ? ;)
>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 03:44:07 -0000, seneca_kw wrote:
>>> I enoyed the recent informative thread on AmiBroker vs
>>> Metastock. I'd appreciate a similar comparison with Wealth-
>>> Lab. I searched the archive but found no mention of WL.
>>>
>>> I'm not expecting a point-by-point rundown, but for those who
>>>
> have
>>> tried both, is there one feature or another that really was a
>>> difference maker?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne
>>>
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