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I asked IB the same
question: if I place a short MOO order (for a 50$
stock) and this stock does an uptick on the bid from 0.01 to 0.02. Will this
mean I am the proud owner of a short position at entry price 0.02$ ? ........
Or will the software make sure this can not
happen?
this is the reply:
>If there is
an uptick while the order is working you will get filled at the>best
available bid, which in this situation could be .01, but not
guaranteed>because it is a market order.
which confuses me even more I must say .... Often
you see (before the market opens) in the TWS a bid price of 0.01 at a ask
price of 80$ while the stock closed at (e.g.) 45$ the previous evening. In
theory at the open somebody could bid 0.02 (which would be an uptick on the bid)
and if there are no other bidders a short market order would be triggered
(or am I wrong ...).
rgds, Ed
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
Al
Venosa
To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:18
PM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Interactive
Brokers / MOO orders / shorts
No, on a penny uptick, the bid would go from 50.01 to 50.02, so you would
go short at 50.02.
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
ed2000nl
To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:47
PM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re:
Interactive Brokers / MOO orders / shorts
Could be you are right but that would mean that
if the bid upticks from 0.01 to 0.02 on a 50$ stock I would have a short
position at entry price 0.02. If that happens I'll be flying out of the
window :) But possibly in theory it could happen.
rgds, Ed
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
Al
Venosa
To: <A
title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003
7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re:
Interactive Brokers / MOO orders / shorts
(it is a bit of a mystery how I got my
shorts at the exact open price then ....).
Ed,
It is my understanding, and I may be all wet, that the uptick rule is
in regards to the bid, not the ask or the trade price. So, if the bid
upticks, then you can go short. Perhaps this is why you got filled at the
exact open.
Al V.
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
ed2000nl
To: <A
title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003
1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re:
Interactive Brokers / MOO orders / shorts
Additional remarks: The orders that were executed on
the Nyse have beenexecuted EXACTLY on the open price (mind you this
is a test with smallorders of only a 100 shares each).The
uptick ruling in the case of SHORT transactions basicly is an
insurancethat you will not short the stock at rediculous prices
since the transactionis only executed at a HIGHER price as the
previous transaction (it is a bitof a mystery how I got my shorts at
the exact open price then ....). Today Ihad enough time to execute
the shorts that did not go at even morefavourable
prices.Sofar MOO seems pretty good. If there is NO uptick or NO
transaction within30 seconds after the market opens, the order is
cancelled. That is the onlyproblem. So one has to do a bit of manual
labor just after opening after all...regards,
Ed----- Original Message -----From: "ed2000nl"
<pablito@xxxxxxx>To:
<amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003
4:03 PMSubject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Interactive Brokers / MOO orders
/ shorts> here my report.>> according to my
system I had to enter at the open (about 20% of theaccount>
is divided amongst each symbol):>> Short
positions:> KO> ETM> GPM>
UVN>> Longs positions:> S>> I placed
MOO order directly to Nyse>> Executed were at 2 separate
accounts (same prices on both accounts).> short position ETM at
51.52 (official open price 51.53)> short position UVN at 38.89
(official open price 38.90)> long position S at 43.52 (official
open price 43.51)>> Not executed are KO and
GPM>> I managed to get in manually in a short KO at 50.60
(slightly better than> the open price). Still working on
GPM>> I am a bit disappointed not all orders went
through,>> regards, Ed>> ----- Original
Message -----> From: "ed2000nl" <pablito@xxxxxxx>>
To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Wednesday, December
17, 2003 1:24 PM> Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Interactive
Brokers / MOO orders / shorts>>> > John,>
>> > today I will try it out (small orders only). The MOO
test on the Nasdaq> was> > not too bad. Only a few
cents off (+ or -) with respect to the"official"> > open
price where on average I would expect to be able to use the open>
price> > in my calculations.> >> > Today I
am going to trade Nyse stocks only. I set my orders already and>
they> > are directly routed to the NYSE (9:30 am). Can't find
it at the momentbut> I> > read that this order
should be executed in a "bulk" order at the open> (other>
> then MOO orders on the Nasdaq)...... hope I am not wrong about
that(only> > playing with small money)>
>> > ..... will let you know ..> >> >
rgds, Ed> >> >> > ----- Original Message
-----> > From: <jea55129@xxxxxxxxx>> > To:
<amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> > Sent: Wednesday, December
17, 2003 12:52 PM> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Interactive
Brokers / MOO orders / shorts> >> >> >
> Ed,> > >> > > Let us know how it turns
out, but I have a feeling it won't be in> > > your favor.
Yes, you will get filled. But at what price. Everyday I> >
> see market orders get filled far away from the bid and ask.
Sometimes> > > a point and more. And I am talking about
equities with lots of> > > volumn, msft,amd,etc...>
> > I used to do market orders at eod. They'd get me some times.
But most> > > times the gap in the next am would take care
of it.> > >> > > Regards,> >
>> > > John> > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ed2000nl" <pablito@xxxx>
wrote:> > > > Herman,> > > >>
> > > I hope you didn't have these problems when trying to
short stocks> > > on the Nyse/Amex using MOO orders. This
is what I am going to try> > > today. If this doesn't work
either then those MOO orders are a joke.> > > But as I
understand on the Nyse/Amex the specialist gets all MKT> >
> orders on the open together, thinks of some nice price and
executes> > > them. So today they should go. If it works
then basicly these> > > backtests in AB are pretty exact.
No slippage only commissions ...> > > >> >
> > rgds, Ed> > > >> > >
> ----- Original Message -----> > >
> From: Herman vandenBergen> > >
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:48 AM> >
> > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Interactive Brokers / MOO
orders / shorts> > > >> > > >>
> > > Hello Ed,> > > >> >
> > My Short OPG orders were cancelled after 15
seconds, I also> > > inquired, see below. I never had a
problem with Long orders. I think> > > ETFs are also
excempt from the uptic rule.> > > > Dear
Trader,> > > > In response to your inquiry
our programmers have informed me: 15> > > SECONDS.>
> > > Sincerely,> > > >
IB Customer Service> > > >
-----Original Message-----> > >
> From: ed2000nl
[mailto:pablito@xxxx]> > > >
Sent: December 17, 2003 3:05 PM> > >
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Interactive
Brokers / MOO orders /> > > shorts> > >
>> > > >> > >
> Herman,> > > >> >
> > on my question how I could be assured
a list of stocks to be> > > shorted on the Nasdaq would
indeed be triggered, IB says:> > > >> > >
> > This will be a difficult task as you
will need an uptick at> > > the open. If a market on open
or limit on open order is not filled> > >
> > in 30 seconds IB will cancel the
order.> > > >> > >
> but there must be a way to do it but for
sure I can not do it> > > by hand because I have several
accounts to work on ..... one woud> > > think that to buy a
stock one would have a similar problem on the> > > Nasdaq.
However ALL my longs were triggered on ALL my accounts.> >
> >> > > > regards,
Ed> > > >> > >
> ----- Original Message
-----> > > > From:
Herman vandenBergen> > >
> To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17,
2003 12:54 AM> > > >
Subject: RE: [amibroker] Interactive Brokers / MOO orders /> >
> shorts> > > >> > > >> >
> > Try higher volume stocks.
You need to define why the order> > > wasn't filled, email
IB for perticulars (from your TWS). Usually it> > > is
either the uptick requirement of the volume that makes the Short>
> > order expire, sometimes it is an IB error :-)> >
> >> > > >
h> > > >
-----Original Message-----> > >
> From: ed2000nl
[mailto:pablito@xxxx]> > >
> Sent: December 16,
2003 11:24 PM> > >
> To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> Subject:
[amibroker] Interactive Brokers / MOO orders /> > >
shorts> > > >> > > >> > >
> hello,> >
> >> > >
> having a system
that seems to work fine is only useful if> > > one can use
it in the "real" world. I wonder if there are people> > >
using Interactive Brokers (IB) who have solved some practical>
> > problems.> > > >> > >
> first you need to
backtest a system using a list of stocks> > > that actually
are allowed to be shorted. I have the list so that> > >
problem is solved hopefully. How reliable is this list. Is it
updated> > > or does one run into stock one cannot short
after all.> > > >> > >
> Then there is the
problem of the orders. Since I use open> > > prices in a
current system I am testing I use MOO orders. They are> > >
actually designed to be used on the Nyse and Amex but I only
used> > > them on the Nasdaq and I get a price pretty close
to the actual open> > > price when I place a MOO buy order
(for small orders). But SHORT> > > orders were not executed
(on the Nasdaq) because the 30 sec time> > > limit was
exceeded ..... So I am pretty comfortable with the LONG>
> > orders but would like to know how people place SHORT orders at
the> > > OPEN with Interactive Brokers,> > >
>> > >
> regards, Ed>
> > >> > > >> > >
> Send BUG REPORTS to
bugs@xxxx> > >
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