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I thought that's what I said, but last I looked these were pretty
much limited to inverses of an index as opposed to being mirrors of a
lot of other stuff.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "areehoi" <hoierman@xxxx> wrote:
> Fred & All:
> Rydex and Pro Funds have Short funds that you can play the same as a
> short. You can switch between there long and short funds on a daily
> basis.
>
> Dick H.
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <fctonetti@xxxx> wrote:
> > You can not short mutual funds, but there are some index oriented
> > funds typically based on SPX / NDX / RUT that are built to track
> > inversely from the indexes themselves. So the purchase of these
> > would equate roughly to the shorting of the index.
> >
> > Someone will undoubtedly come along and slap me upside the head
for
> > saying this but imho the short side of the market is more
difficult
> > to play than the long side. There are several reasons for this
not
> > the least of which is that if for no other reason than inflation
the
> > bias of the market is from a very long term perspective, up. If
one
> > were to look at how many up days there were versus how many down
days
> > one would see that over a very long period of time that the ratio
is
> > about 60/40. This is easy to see when looking at long term
charts as
> > the character of bull markts is differnet then that of bears,
where
> > the former has a tendancy to take a lot longer to move a similar
> > distance then the latter when one is looking at environments that
are
> > of equal degree.
> >
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "jtelang" <jtelang@xxxx> wrote:
> > > Fred,
> > >
> > > From this, do I understand it correctly that one can't go
> > > short on MF's? Why would one be sitting on cash otherwise?
> > > Or may be I'm not following what you said below...
> > >
> > > Jitu
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <fctonetti@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > One other note regarding short term trading ... There are of
> > course
> > > > ways to accomplish the same thing with out actually taking
the
> > > short
> > > > term trades i.e. by hedging using a bear oriented fund
leaving
> > you
> > > > more or less market neutral during the period of time when
you
> > > would
> > > > have been sitting in cash.
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <fctonetti@xxxx>
wrote:
> > > > > See below ...
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Chuck Rademacher"
> > > > > <chuck_rademacher@x> wrote:
> > > > > > Maybe some of you guys (and gals) who trade mutual funds
can
> > > > answer
> > > > > a couple
> > > > > > of questions?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. If there's no money to be made in (rotational trading
of)
> > > > > ETF's, am I
> > > > > > correct when I assume that there's no money to be made in
the
> > > > Rydex-
> > > > > like
> > > > > > funds that only mimic an index?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rydex's funds are pretty much either index or sector
oriented.
> > > > This
> > > > > is not the kind of thing I personally like to trade. But
for
> > > > example
> > > > > if you have a system that trades SPX, NDX or RUT well or is
> > good
> > > at
> > > > > jumping on the sector that's likely to be hot next as
opposed
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > one that just was then it would certainly work in this
scenario.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Based on current rules and redemption penalties,
which
> > > > families
> > > > > of
> > > > > > mutual funds can you recommend for rotational trading?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't personally trade on what one would consider to be a
> > > > > rotational basis. As I and Ken stated, erf's or the funds
> > > > management
> > > > > policies will eventually weed out most if not all the short
> > term
> > > > > traders, especially the ones with large dollars. So if you
are
> > > > > looking to trade mf's with some sort of short term oriented
> > > > > rotational system as opposed to one that trades on an
> > > intermediate
> > > > > basis picking good candidates at the beginning of a market
buy
> > > and
> > > > > for the most part holding them until a market sell then you
are
> > > > going
> > > > > to find yourself pretty much limited to Rydex, ProFunds &
> > Potomac.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 3. If most (or all) such families of funds charge early
> > > > redemption
> > > > > fees, is
> > > > > > it safe to assume that you are trading these mid to long
term?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There's no sense in me working on a system that appears
to do
> > > > well,
> > > > > only to
> > > > > > find that redemption fees are going to kill me. Or, is
it
> > > > > possible that
> > > > > > there's enough money to be made that the fees are of
little
> > > > > consequence?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Most do NOT yet charge erf's and as you can see from prior
> > posts
> > > > it's
> > > > > debatable as to whether or not they will and if so what the
> > > minimum
> > > > > holding periods will be to trigger those. For short term
> > > oriented
> > > > > traders adding a 1-2% erf in a 7-14 day period would be
enough
> > to
> > > > > send them elsewhere or to a different methodology. What
the
> > SEC
> > > or
> > > > > the fund companies themselves will do with this remains to
be
> > > > seen.
> > > > > They really can't afford to be too outrageous with it as
every
> > > > > 401k/IRA/VA account holder on the planet will be screaming
> > bloody
> > > > > murder.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Out of all of the above, I'm really interested in some
> > > > > recommendations on
> > > > > > mutual fund families to trade. I can then go do my own
> > > > > investigation as to
> > > > > > their fees, etc and devise my own systems that will work
with
> > > > those
> > > > > fees.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I wouldn't think families as there is no real reason to
just
> > like
> > > > > there is no real reason to arbitrarilly limit ones trading
in
> > > > stocks
> > > > > to some specific group based on whatever.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
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