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It is always a trailing stop to the person
responsible for making it trail. If you give that responsibility and your
specifications to the broker, then yes, to him it is a trailing stop. If you
place a stop order but retain responsibility for trailing it by manual
adjustment, then to your broker it is only a stop, while to you it is a trailing
stop.
If you told me my car was a cool car while we were
riding on a 100 degree day, I would assume you were referring to the temperature
of the car. If you made the comment while gazing at my beauty during a car show,
I would make a different assumption.
Faddish use of a phrase does not imply correct
usage.
Rik RasmussenStock Analyzer mailing list
moderator<A
href="">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stockanalyzer/
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
<A title=jcasavant@xxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">Jayson
To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:36
AM
Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy
on open
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>Rik,
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
So,
if I tell you that your new car is "Cool" it suggests that your new
car actually needs heating system repair work done? I think if you were
to call most brokerage houses today and asked them to place a 2% trailing
stop they will either tell you
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
1)
Ok no problem
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>or
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
2)
Sorry , we are not capable of placing such an order, we can however
cancel and place new orders as needed.
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
It
is a matter of semantics but today, most brokerage houses (that I have used)
consider a trailing stop a single order they can place that is automatically
adjusted........ but seriously, need a blanket?
<SPAN
class=387361214-24022003>
Jayson
<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Rik Rasmussen
[mailto:hrasmussen@xxxxxxxxx]Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:43
AMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [amibroker]
Re: cannot buy on openTrailing stops were used long
before any brokers had online order placement.The definition of a trailing
stop preceeds the recently introduced automatictrailing stops. Many people
still manually manage trailing stops, includingme since my broker does not
offer automatic (new fangled) trailing stops.(Not sure I would use them if
they did, I hate to give up my flexibility toa computer entry.) The
definition of a trailing stop preceeds the recentlyintroduced automatic
trailing stops.Rik RasmussenStock Analyzer mailing list
moderator<A
href="">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stockanalyzer/>
-----Original Message-----> From: Phsst <phsst@xxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:phsst@xxxxxxxxx]> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:38
PM> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [amibroker] Re:
cannot buy on open>>> > No, a trailing stop loss order
AUTOMATICALLY adjust the stop price> by a given percent or value
example 5% or .50 cents. This is different> from entering a stop order
and making changes your self......>>> OK... exception
noted.>> So what do they NOW call the process of manually
adjusting the stop> price in order to obtain more granular individual
trading rule> preferences?>> Just
curious.>> Phsst>> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jayson" <jcasavant@xxxx> wrote:> >
No, a trailing stop loss order AUTOMATICALLY adjust the stop price by
a> > given percent or value example 5% or .50 cents. This is
different from> > entering a stop order and making changes your
self......> >> > Jayson> > -----Original
Message-----> > From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx>
[mailto:phsst@xxxx]> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:21
PM> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject:
[amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open> >> >> >
Guess I'm confused.> >> > One of the followup msgs to this
thread stated that Scottrade did not> > support trailing stop loss
orders.> >> > Trailing stop loss orders are nothing more
than STOP orders with a> > price specified that will trigger if the
security trades against the> > position and through the STOP price.
It is referred to as a 'Trailing'> > Stop Loss order when you
peridically change the specified Stop price> > to 'Trail' the price
action of the stock price to either limit losses> > or protect
gains.> >> > Backtesting software simulates the manual
adjustments that must be> > made regurlarly to Stop prices for
trailing stop loss purposes.> >> > Is this one of those
'teach an old dog new tricks' thingy's?> >> >
Phsst> >> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Richard
Harper" <rdharper@xxxx>> wrote:> > > Phsst;>
> >> > > Here is the appropriate help section from the live
screen:> > > What is a stop or a stop-limit?> >
>> > > Stop Order is a buy or sell order which automatically
converts to a> > market order and will buy and sell securities at
the current MARKET> > price once the order is triggered by the stop
price. For OTC orders,> > a stop order becomes a market order
if either scenario takes place.> > The stock is quoted (bid for sell
stops and ask for buy stops) at your> > stop price or actually
trades at or through the stop price. For> > listed stocks a
customer is entitled to the next sale on the primary> > market when
the price trades at the stop price, providing there are> > enough
shares available at that price.> > > A stop order may be a day
order or a good til cancel order. A limit> > order is not the
same type of order as a stop order. Buy stop orders> > are
placed above the current offering price and sell stop orders are> >
placed below the current bid price. A stop order gives you the>
> opportunity to protect a profit or limit a loss on a security
already> > purchased. Be aware that significant, short term
market movements may> > trigger your stop order, creating an
undesired/unwanted buy or sell.> > Also, depending on market
conditions and the fact that your order is a> > market order, once
triggered, there is no guarantee of what price it> > will be
executed at and can be several points away from the stop price.> >
>> > > Stop Limit Order is an order to buy or sell a security
at a> > specified price or better (stop limit price), but only after
a given> > stop price has been reached or passed. It is a
combination of a stop> > order and a limit order. A stop limit
order may be a day order or a> > good til cancel order. Unlike
a stop order which converts to a market> > order once order is
triggered by the stop price, a stop limit order> > would only be
executed at the limit price or better. As with any> > order
limited by price, the risk is that you have the opportunity that> >
your order would not be executed if the market price does not reach>
> the limit.> > >> > > Stop Orders and Stop Limit
Orders are handled differently by the> > exchanges and are
considered "not held" orders. No priority is given> > to these
orders and you may not be executed, even if the stock is> > trading
at your price.> > >> > > ***NOTE: Stop orders
must be placed at least .25 of a point below> > the current bid or
above the current ask. We have established this> > guideline
due to the possibility of the order being invalid if the> > market
price moves below the designated sell stop price or above the> > buy
stop price.> > >> > > ----- Original
Message -----> > > From: Phsst
<phsst@xxxx>> > > To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Sunday, February
23, 2003 5:16 PM> > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot
buy on open> > >> > >> > >
<<Scottrade supports all but Mkt on Close, End of Week, End of>
Month.> > > Nor trailing stops, the thing I'd like to
see added next. The> others> > > are
supported.>>> > >> > > I looked at
the demo Scottrade online trade entry screen. It allows> >
> you to enter a Sell... Stop... GTC... order on an existing
Long> > > position, or a Buy to Cover... Stop... GTC
order on an existing> Short> > > position.
What the demo trade entry screen did not show was how to> >
> specify a Stop Price at which to execute the order.>
> >> > > If a price specifier is available
under the live trading system,> then> > > that
is all you would need to implement Stop Loss orders, and then> >
> make them trailing by manually adjusting the Stop Price
nightly or> > > periodically.> >
>> > > Hard to believe that Scottrade does not
allow you to specify a Stop> > > Price in the order
entry screen.> > >> > > Phsst>
> >> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"Richard Harper" <rdharper@xxxx>> > wrote:> >
> > Phsst;> > > >> >
> > Scottrade supports all but Mkt on Close, End of Week,
End of> Month.> > > Nor trailing stops, the
thing I'd like to see added next. The> others> >
> are supported.> > > >>
> > > Richard> > >
> ----- Original Message -----> > >
> From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx>> > >
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:08 AM> >
> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on
open> > > >> > >
>> > > > <<Would you mind
sharing the name of the broker you use to> > place these>
> > > orders?> > >
> I do not think I can do this with my current broker,>
Scottrade.>>> > > >> >
> > Almost all brokers support the orders I
use... Datek, RJT,> ETrade,> > >
> AmeriTrade, etc. The Order parameters from Ameritrade
include:> > > >> > >
> Position - Buy, Sell, Sell Short, Cover> >
> > Terms - Market, Limit,
Stop, Stop Limit> > > > Good For -
Day, GTC, Mkt on Close, End of Week, End of Month,> >
>
>
Good ThroughDate> > > > Special
- All or None, Do not Reduce, Fill or Kill,> > >
>> > > > I rarely trade during the
day, preferring to make my trading> > decisions> >
> > using EOD data and placing those orders
online that night for> > next day> > >
> automatic execution.> > >
>> > > > Each night I review all
open positions and manually place (or> > adjust)> >
> > trailing stop loss orders using 'Sell' /
'Stop' orders. I> use GTC> > >
> orders for stop loss purposes so that if I happen to be
away> > for a day> > > > or
more, then I have absolute protection even though I may not> >
have> > > > 'tweaked' the trailing
limit price.> > > >> > >
> Nothing fancy.> > > >>
> > > But I want my backtesting software to
be able to simulate all> > of the> > >
> available EOD Order stradegies from within code or AFL
without> > having> > > > to
change parameter settings from a Settings window every time> > I
want> > > > to test a new
combination.> > > >> > >
> Phsst> > > >> >
> >> > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Rik Rasmussen"> > >
<hrasmussen@xxxx> wrote:> > > >
> Phsst,> > > > >> >
> > > Would you mind sharing the name of the
broker you use to> > place these> > >
> orders?> > > > > I
do not think I can do this with my current broker,> Scottrade.>
> > > >> > >
> > Rik Rasmussen> > >
> >> > > >
>> > > > > > -----Original
Message-----> > > > > > From:
Phsst <phsst@xxxx> [mailto:phsst@xxxx]> > >
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:00 AM>
> > > > > To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > >
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open> > >
> > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > Yuki,>
> > > > >> > >
> > > I've read the previous posts on this subject and
feel the> > need to> > > >
> > contribute to your side of the issue:> > >
> > >> > > > >
> AB is almost bulletproof on the technical indicators and> >
triggers> > > > > > needed to
initiate backtest trades...> > > >
> >> > > > > > HOWEVER, I
find that the ENTRY / EXIT stradegies of AB> are not> >
> > > > intuitive, and that a good bit of
'tweaking' and> 'testing' is> > >
> > > necessary to even attempt to come close to
real-world> > orders for> > >
> > > entry/exit positions of securities.> >
> > > >> > >
> > > For example, for years I have traded certain
strategies as> > > follows:> >
> > > >> > >
> > > After hours Buy or Short Limit order @ todays (EOD)
close or> > > "BETTER @> > >
> > > OPEN".> > >
> > >> > > > >
> No StopLoss entered on day of order entry execution.> >
> > > >> > >
> > > After Mkt closes on day of order execution (and
each day> > > > > >
thereafter)... place trailing stop loss order .10cents above> >
> or below> > > > >
> todays high or low (only if new stop moves in direction of> >
> position).> > > >
> >> > > > > > The above
has been a successful strategy with my own> > backtesting>
> > > > > software and actual trading
discipline.> > > > > >>
> > > > > I cannot figure out how to
accomplish the above in AB.> > > >
> >> > > > > > And if
folks are tolerant, I think I can come up with some> > other>
> > > > > situations that have eluded
me in past AB backtests that> I can> > >
> > > accomplish with my own software.> >
> > > >> > >
> > > And for those who wonder why I fool around with
AB... TJ has> > > done an> >
> > > > unbelievable job on the many
technical indicators that are> > > needed to>
> > > > > setup entry and exit signals
that my own software is not> > > capable of.>
> > > > >> > >
> > > I tend to still rely upon my own backtesting
(called> > 'SIM') for> > > >
> > verification of real trading stradegies, but only because I>
> > haven't> > > >
> > figured out the more esoteric issues of AB Order/Entry>
issues.> > > > > >> >
> > > > Regards,> >
> > > >> > >
> > > Phsst> > > >>
> > >> > >
> Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor> > >
>
ADVERTISEMENT> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
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