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Trailing stops were used long before any brokers had online order placement.
The definition of a trailing stop preceeds the recently introduced automatic
trailing stops. Many people still manually manage trailing stops, including
me since my broker does not offer automatic (new fangled) trailing stops.
(Not sure I would use them if they did, I hate to give up my flexibility to
a computer entry.) The definition of a trailing stop preceeds the recently
introduced automatic trailing stops.
Rik Rasmussen
Stock Analyzer mailing list moderator
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stockanalyzer/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phsst <phsst@xxxxxxxxx> [mailto:phsst@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:38 PM
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open
>
>
> > No, a trailing stop loss order AUTOMATICALLY adjust the stop price
> by a given percent or value example 5% or .50 cents. This is different
> from entering a stop order and making changes your self......>
>
> OK... exception noted.
>
> So what do they NOW call the process of manually adjusting the stop
> price in order to obtain more granular individual trading rule
> preferences?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Phsst
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jayson" <jcasavant@xxxx> wrote:
> > No, a trailing stop loss order AUTOMATICALLY adjust the stop price by a
> > given percent or value example 5% or .50 cents. This is different from
> > entering a stop order and making changes your self......
> >
> > Jayson
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx> [mailto:phsst@x...]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:21 PM
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open
> >
> >
> > Guess I'm confused.
> >
> > One of the followup msgs to this thread stated that Scottrade did not
> > support trailing stop loss orders.
> >
> > Trailing stop loss orders are nothing more than STOP orders with a
> > price specified that will trigger if the security trades against the
> > position and through the STOP price. It is referred to as a 'Trailing'
> > Stop Loss order when you peridically change the specified Stop price
> > to 'Trail' the price action of the stock price to either limit losses
> > or protect gains.
> >
> > Backtesting software simulates the manual adjustments that must be
> > made regurlarly to Stop prices for trailing stop loss purposes.
> >
> > Is this one of those 'teach an old dog new tricks' thingy's?
> >
> > Phsst
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Richard Harper" <rdharper@xxxx>
> wrote:
> > > Phsst;
> > >
> > > Here is the appropriate help section from the live screen:
> > > What is a stop or a stop-limit?
> > >
> > > Stop Order is a buy or sell order which automatically converts to a
> > market order and will buy and sell securities at the current MARKET
> > price once the order is triggered by the stop price. For OTC orders,
> > a stop order becomes a market order if either scenario takes place.
> > The stock is quoted (bid for sell stops and ask for buy stops) at your
> > stop price or actually trades at or through the stop price. For
> > listed stocks a customer is entitled to the next sale on the primary
> > market when the price trades at the stop price, providing there are
> > enough shares available at that price.
> > > A stop order may be a day order or a good til cancel order. A limit
> > order is not the same type of order as a stop order. Buy stop orders
> > are placed above the current offering price and sell stop orders are
> > placed below the current bid price. A stop order gives you the
> > opportunity to protect a profit or limit a loss on a security already
> > purchased. Be aware that significant, short term market movements may
> > trigger your stop order, creating an undesired/unwanted buy or sell.
> > Also, depending on market conditions and the fact that your order is a
> > market order, once triggered, there is no guarantee of what price it
> > will be executed at and can be several points away from the stop price.
> > >
> > > Stop Limit Order is an order to buy or sell a security at a
> > specified price or better (stop limit price), but only after a given
> > stop price has been reached or passed. It is a combination of a stop
> > order and a limit order. A stop limit order may be a day order or a
> > good til cancel order. Unlike a stop order which converts to a market
> > order once order is triggered by the stop price, a stop limit order
> > would only be executed at the limit price or better. As with any
> > order limited by price, the risk is that you have the opportunity that
> > your order would not be executed if the market price does not reach
> > the limit.
> > >
> > > Stop Orders and Stop Limit Orders are handled differently by the
> > exchanges and are considered "not held" orders. No priority is given
> > to these orders and you may not be executed, even if the stock is
> > trading at your price.
> > >
> > > ***NOTE: Stop orders must be placed at least .25 of a point below
> > the current bid or above the current ask. We have established this
> > guideline due to the possibility of the order being invalid if the
> > market price moves below the designated sell stop price or above the
> > buy stop price.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx>
> > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:16 PM
> > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open
> > >
> > >
> > > <<Scottrade supports all but Mkt on Close, End of Week, End of
> Month.
> > > Nor trailing stops, the thing I'd like to see added next. The
> others
> > > are supported.>>
> > >
> > > I looked at the demo Scottrade online trade entry screen. It allows
> > > you to enter a Sell... Stop... GTC... order on an existing Long
> > > position, or a Buy to Cover... Stop... GTC order on an existing
> Short
> > > position. What the demo trade entry screen did not show was how to
> > > specify a Stop Price at which to execute the order.
> > >
> > > If a price specifier is available under the live trading system,
> then
> > > that is all you would need to implement Stop Loss orders, and then
> > > make them trailing by manually adjusting the Stop Price nightly or
> > > periodically.
> > >
> > > Hard to believe that Scottrade does not allow you to specify a Stop
> > > Price in the order entry screen.
> > >
> > > Phsst
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Richard Harper" <rdharper@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > > Phsst;
> > > >
> > > > Scottrade supports all but Mkt on Close, End of Week, End of
> Month.
> > > Nor trailing stops, the thing I'd like to see added next. The
> others
> > > are supported.
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx>
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:08 AM
> > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <<Would you mind sharing the name of the broker you use to
> > place these
> > > > orders?
> > > > I do not think I can do this with my current broker,
> Scottrade.>>
> > > >
> > > > Almost all brokers support the orders I use... Datek, RJT,
> ETrade,
> > > > AmeriTrade, etc. The Order parameters from Ameritrade include:
> > > >
> > > > Position - Buy, Sell, Sell Short, Cover
> > > > Terms - Market, Limit, Stop, Stop Limit
> > > > Good For - Day, GTC, Mkt on Close, End of Week, End of Month,
> > > > Good ThroughDate
> > > > Special - All or None, Do not Reduce, Fill or Kill,
> > > >
> > > > I rarely trade during the day, preferring to make my trading
> > decisions
> > > > using EOD data and placing those orders online that night for
> > next day
> > > > automatic execution.
> > > >
> > > > Each night I review all open positions and manually place (or
> > adjust)
> > > > trailing stop loss orders using 'Sell' / 'Stop' orders. I
> use GTC
> > > > orders for stop loss purposes so that if I happen to be away
> > for a day
> > > > or more, then I have absolute protection even though I may not
> > have
> > > > 'tweaked' the trailing limit price.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing fancy.
> > > >
> > > > But I want my backtesting software to be able to simulate all
> > of the
> > > > available EOD Order stradegies from within code or AFL without
> > having
> > > > to change parameter settings from a Settings window every time
> > I want
> > > > to test a new combination.
> > > >
> > > > Phsst
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Rik Rasmussen"
> > > <hrasmussen@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > Phsst,
> > > > >
> > > > > Would you mind sharing the name of the broker you use to
> > place these
> > > > orders?
> > > > > I do not think I can do this with my current broker,
> Scottrade.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rik Rasmussen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Phsst <phsst@xxxx> [mailto:phsst@x...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:00 AM
> > > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: cannot buy on open
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yuki,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've read the previous posts on this subject and feel the
> > need to
> > > > > > contribute to your side of the issue:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AB is almost bulletproof on the technical indicators and
> > triggers
> > > > > > needed to initiate backtest trades...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HOWEVER, I find that the ENTRY / EXIT stradegies of AB
> are not
> > > > > > intuitive, and that a good bit of 'tweaking' and
> 'testing' is
> > > > > > necessary to even attempt to come close to real-world
> > orders for
> > > > > > entry/exit positions of securities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For example, for years I have traded certain strategies as
> > > follows:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After hours Buy or Short Limit order @ todays (EOD) close or
> > > "BETTER @
> > > > > > OPEN".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No StopLoss entered on day of order entry execution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After Mkt closes on day of order execution (and each day
> > > > > > thereafter)... place trailing stop loss order .10cents above
> > > or below
> > > > > > todays high or low (only if new stop moves in direction of
> > > position).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The above has been a successful strategy with my own
> > backtesting
> > > > > > software and actual trading discipline.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I cannot figure out how to accomplish the above in AB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And if folks are tolerant, I think I can come up with some
> > other
> > > > > > situations that have eluded me in past AB backtests that
> I can
> > > > > > accomplish with my own software.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for those who wonder why I fool around with AB... TJ has
> > > done an
> > > > > > unbelievable job on the many technical indicators that are
> > > needed to
> > > > > > setup entry and exit signals that my own software is not
> > > capable of.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tend to still rely upon my own backtesting (called
> > 'SIM') for
> > > > > > verification of real trading stradegies, but only because I
> > > haven't
> > > > > > figured out the more esoteric issues of AB Order/Entry
> issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phsst
> > > >
> > > >
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