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----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
wavemechanic
To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Vertical
Lines
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>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
<A title=winchp@xxxx
href="">server not recognized
To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:49
AM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Vertical
Lines
This is not the place to go into these things. As a
generality any horse can make it around the track. Some are better
than others. The fact that almost any method scrutinised to an inch of
its life coupled with money management speaks volumes for money
management. By money management I mean simply GET OUT when
it doesn't go you way from the start. I'm my own worst adherent of
this one. Why is it so important to be able to get a time and
price from a single high or low? Would anybody seriously invest 5% of
their wealth on a single data point? So what's the point?
As you note below, mutiple inputs
are important, although you incorrectly assume that I use only Gann.
Gann stuff is one approach that I use. Fibonacci is another,
Momentum is another. Etc. So for me Gann is just one of many
tools, and like Fibonacci is used as a heads up indicator. I do not
invest on the basis of any single indicator. And yes, money management
is important, but I like to start with the best indicator base that I can
find.
WE AGREE.
I've had a go at Gann and the problem is for me that
its not IMNSHO even as useful as my favourite P&F. Not only does
it not have timing but it doesn't give any sense of "storing of
energy". I've thought that a 3D square where time spent at a price
accumulated vertically might be useful. But my biggest problem isthat
it doesn't seem grounded in anything substantial. Even
Fibbonacci seems to be reflected or grounded in some natural mathematical
order. At best if Gann provides a set of definite rules that are
adhered to maybe that's its strength or best point.
You clearly do not fully understand
Gann when you say it does not have timing. Please refer back to the
Gold chart. But your biggest problem is mixing up correlation
with cause. There is nothing you or I use that has a known
cause. Correlation? Yes, but not cause. As one learnsin
Logic 101, establishing a cause requires a theory that accounts for
observations better than alternative theories. As a result, everything
we do is in the "voodoo" category since there are no valid theories (not
correlations) for MACD, RSI, Gann, Fibonacci, etc.
WHO MENTIONED CAUSE?
I've read almost "Truth of the Stock Tape" & "Wall
Street Stock Selector" by Gann. My conclusion was that the markets in
his day were different and he applied a great deal of unknown but
appreciable sub-conscious pattern recognition and judgement to his work- at
least I think so. Interpretation still has plenty of scope. Gold
may well have fit within $0.50 but I'm also sure that someone's RSI, orMACD
or whatever had settings that hit it too.
I have read veryfew of
the original works of any indicator/system developer, including Gann, and
just sponge off of the digested output of the TA writers, as most do.
But you are exactly right about the value of other methodologies. That
is why no tool should be used alone, including RSI, MACD, Gann, Fibonacci,
etc. Very few use only one thing, but look for verification from
many. In my experience, Gann is one that is useful in this regard, and
so far all you have said that is that you do not believe. I have
shown you evidence that it does work. Always? No, but nothing
does. I have not seen anything presented by you that indicates
that Gann has a poorer win/lose ratio than any other indicator.
Do you have such evidence?
I CAN SENSE THAT NOTHING SHORT OF A
TREATISE WILL WORK FOR YOU. THEN I FACE THE CHALLENGE PROCESS. AND
THEN OF COURSE ITS STILL ONLY A THEORY SINCE THERE IS NO PROOF.
I spent a bit of time in misc.invest.technical and
misc.invest.futures newsgroups and of those whose opinions and experience I
came to believe was based on solid years of experience, they didn't
have much kind to say about Gann compared to other approaches. I
suggest a vist to www.deja.com and and see
Hershey for example.
Most, like yourself, do notreally
understand how to properly use Gann. As a result, their opinions are
not particularly important. Like you I used to spend time on
the "misc" boards, but did not find them worth the effort of shifting
through the "junk." There are much better
places.
THIS TRUE ESPECIALLY LATELYOVER THE
LAST 6-8 NTHS ESPECIALLY. HOWEVER SEVERAL YEARS AGO THE GROUPS I
MENTIONED WERE ESPECIALLY ACTIVE AND ABOUT 10-15 POSTERS WERE EXTREMELY
EXPERIENCED IN TIME, MARKETS AND TECHNIQUES. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHOKNOW
ABOUT ARCH AND GARCH AND EVEN MORE ADVANCED TIME SERIES ANALYSIS
TECHNIQUES. SOME DEVELOPED TRADING SYSTEMS FOR MEGA MILLION FUNDS. AS
A RETORICAL SUGGESTION - WOULD YOU BE HAPPY WITH YOUR SUPERANNUATION FUND
USING GANN TECHNIQUES?
I suggest that multiple tools operating in different time
frames, an awareness of the inherent lags or anticipatory nature of the
tool/indicator/oscillator/chicken entrails coupled with MM will do the trick
more than GANN.
Well as noted above, we agree about
multiple tools and time frames. But MM? You obviously are not
aware that MM is based on Gann's Square of 9. Time for a little
homework. Once again, please provide evidence for your statements
about the value of one methodology over another. You speak with such
certainty that I am sure you must have a valid statistical basis for your
statements. Please share them with us, or by direct e-mail, if
you do not want to post. Absent this enuf ced.
OK. READ P. KAUFMANN PP366
-371 FOR A DESCRIPTION. NOTHING STARTLING OR DEROGATORY ABOUT WHAT HE
SAYS. THE LAST FEW SENTENCES ARE 'ON MANY OF GANNS CHARTS THERE IS
NOTATION SHOWING PLANETARY MOVEMENT...'. KAUFMANNS NEXT TOPIC IS
FINANCIAL ASTROLOGY. I'M NOT USING GUILT BY ASSOCIATION, BUT REFERING
ABOVE WOULD YOU BE HAPPY IF YOUR SUPERANNUATION FUNDS INVESTMENT DECISIONS
WERE RULED BY ELEMENTS OF ASTROLOGY. IF THEY MADE MONEY NO-ONE WOULD
COMPLAIN BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE THE OUTCRY IF THEY LOST MONEY AND FINANCIAL
ASTROLOGY WAS INCLUDED. AGAIN NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING. IF THE
FEATURE OF GANN IS DESCRIBED AS AN ATTEMPT TO GET CYCLICAL BEHAVIOUR AND AS
KAUFMANN DESCRIBES GANN'S APPROACH AS"CONSERVE YOUR CAPITAL AND WAIT FOR THE
RIGHT TIME' I STAND BY MY ASSERTION THAN 'GANN' IS MORE ABOUT MM THAN HIS
TECHNIQUE. IF YOU WATCH A RACEHORSE AND NO OTHER RACEHORSE THEN
EVENTUALLY YOU'LL SEE IT IN A RACE THAT IT CAN RUN A PLACE AND YOU'LL PUT A
BET ON AT THAT TIME.
MURPHY SAYS'GANN LINES (REFERRING TO
FAN LINES)ARE SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL. EVEN IF ONE OF THEM WORKS YOU CAN'T BE
SURE IN ADVANCE WHICH ONE IT WILL BE. SOME CHARTISTS QUESTION THE VALIDITY
OF DRAWING GEOMETRIC TRENDLINES AT ALL.' AND THAT IS ALL HE HAS TO SAY
ABOUT GANN IN 500 PAGES. DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.
SCHWAGER DOESN'T EVEN MENTION GANN
IN 700 PAGES. READ ELDER 'TRADING FOR A LIVING" P23. REGARDING
GANNS ALLEDGED $50M...WHY ALL THE SECRET CODES, O/SEAS BANK ACCOUNTS,
KEEPING MONEY FROM FAMILY ETC...YOU'D BELIEVE A LAWYER? THAT SORTOF
BEHAVIOUR SMACKS OF PARANOIA OR AND GURUISM. IT SEEMS TO METO
REFLECT ON THOSE SELLING SYSTEMS AFTER HIS DEATH TO MAINTAIN GANN AS A SEMI
MYSTIC SO THEY CAN SELL A SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE IT WAS
ALL WRITTEN IN CODE.
'THE COMPLETE CRAP' COMMENTRELATES
TO USING AN APPROACH THAT IS 60 YEARS OLD, THAT CONTAINS SOME ELEMENTS
RECOGNISED AS IMPORTANT SUCH AS MM & BEHAVIOUR AND WERE AHEAD OF HIS
TIME. BUT SO WAS HENRY FORD AND LOOK WHAT OTHERS HAVE DONE TO THE
CONCEPTS SINCE.
But the beauty is....its your money...anyone can play
....nobody is right absolutely...
I STAND BY THIS AND WISH YOU THE
BEST. I'M NOT TRYING TO DISSUADE YOU BUT PUT A POINT OF VIEW. I
SUSPECT THAT USUALLY WHEN PEOPLE FOLLOW PERSONALISED SYSTEMS (MEANING
BASED ON PERSONALITIES) THEIR ADOPTION BEGINS TO BORDER ON A RELIGIOUS
BELIEF AND A REBEL ATTITUDE THAT SEEKS TO BE CONTRARIAN FOR THE SAKE OF
IT. THIS COMMENT IS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SINCE I DON'T KNOW YOU.
GOOD LUCK WITH GANN BUT I WISH TOMASZ DIDN'T PUT IT IN AMIBROKER BECAUSE IT
PERPETUATES A MYTH AND CONTINUES TO LEND CREDIBILITY TO SOMETHINGTHAT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN INSTALLED IN THE HALL OF FAME YEARS AGO, AND THE REST OF US
HAVE MOVED ON. JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE. YOU COULD ALSO SEE GARY
SMITHS COMMENTS "HOW I TRADE FOR A LIVING" ON P31 & 61. YOU MIGHT
BE MORE ALIGNED WITH HIS SUGGESTION OF PERCEPTUAL FILTERS. THIS IS A
VIEW A LONG WAY FROM USING GANN TO TRADE WITH.
GOOD LUCK.
now if only I could figure out how to apply sectors,
markets and industries (or is that markets groups and sectors) to stocks in
Amibroker I'll be right.
(thanks David H for comment
but above was meant to be a joke i.e after panning Gann I can't even run
Amibroker at square one sort of thing. Yep. Dumb joke when explained.
Cheers)
P
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
<A title=wd78@xxxx
href="">wavemechanic
To: <A
title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:45
AM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Vertical
Lines
Server:
You are confusing a Gann Square with a Gann
Square of 9. I am not trying to generate a Gann Square of 9 on a
chart, but a Gann square based on the Square of 9.
I am curious, however,
do you have any evidence that
either is a "bunch of crap?" Do you know how to generate a
square or even use it properly? Do you have another technique that
generates time and price from a single high or low point? The
attached is a recent example of the square for gold from the 4/2/01
low. The 180 degree level is 289 and the actual was 288.5. The
square in time is 16 and is one day off. Do you have anything that
could make these projections based on the 4/2/01 low? Would love to
see a valid alternative.
Could other TA have made similar
projections. Probably. Does this mean that I don't use Gann
stuff - no. I use anything and everything that
works.
I am not a Gann defender, nor an Elliott or
Fibonacci or anything defender. If you have a defendable basis for
rejecting a particular methodology then please share it with the
group. Otherwise, one might get the impression that your opinions
are totally subjective in nature.
By the way, although I am not a student of Gann,
I have read that when he died he had $50MM in an offshore bank that was
shielded from his family or at least some of them.
Good luck in your trading.
Bill
<BLOCKQUOTE
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----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
<A title=winchp@xxxx
href="">server not recognized
To: <A
title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:10
AM
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Vertical
Lines
I've never seen such a thing. Gann squares are
usually a table drawn by hand in a spiral where the key dates are those
at certain angles of the square (or hexagon). Numbering starts at
the centre and radiates outwards in a spiral. When a price ishit
at say the 90deg radial then usually it means the next stop of is
another quadrant angle such as 45, 180, 270 (from memory). So
whatever price was at that point is the possible
up/downside.
Frankly I think its a bunch of crap. Plenty of
newsgroups don't give this approach much credit and note that Gann
survived on the money from his family business not from trading. Orso
I'm told.
How its proposed to turn all this into an indicator I
wait with interest - academic interest not serious trading
interest.
P
<BLOCKQUOTE
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----- Original Message -----
<DIV
>From:
<A title=wd78@xxxx
href="">wavemechanic
To: <A
title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">AmiBroker, yahoogroup
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001
9:02 AM
Subject: [amibroker] Vertical
Lines
I am trying to build an indicator that will
generate a Gann square. The horizontal levels are OK, but I
cannot figure out how to draw vertical lines after calculating
their values. Does anyone know how this can be
done.
BillYour use
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